Island Someri/Sommers

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Mangrove
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Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Mangrove » 25 Feb 2010 14:47

Splitted from Finnish submarine attacks 1941:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=163258
/Juha

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crolick wrote: Though as far as I know this island was not in Soviet possession -
2.RPr. captured empty Someri on 31 December 1941. Only a shot Soviet was found. It was estimated that around 40 or 50 Soviet soldiers were occupying the island. [SPK 21488]

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by crolick » 25 Feb 2010 16:45

Igorr thank you for the input :)
Though I'm afraid I do not have any other details concerning attacks. I'm still waiting for them to be published on Finnish National Archives website.

Martti - so when Someri Isl was 'invaded' by Soviets?


Andrzej

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Mangrove » 25 Feb 2010 18:56

crolick wrote: Martti - so when Someri Isl was 'invaded' by Soviets?
A Finnish patrol tried to scout the island on 25.9.1941 but was forced to retreat so the island was probably manned as early as June.

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Juha Tompuri » 25 Feb 2010 19:50

Martti Kujansuu wrote:
crolick wrote: Martti - so when Someri Isl was 'invaded' by Soviets?
A Finnish patrol tried to scout the island on 25.9.1941 but was forced to retreat so the island was probably manned as early as June.
From December 1939 on.

Regards, Juha

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Mangrove » 25 Feb 2010 21:16

Juha Tompuri wrote:From December 1939 on.
Since troops at Suursaari were withdrew to Lavansaari in 1941 I though the same was for Someri?

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Juha Tompuri » 25 Feb 2010 22:02

Martti Kujansuu wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote:From December 1939 on.
Since troops at Suursaari were withdrew to Lavansaari in 1941 I though the same was for Someri?
Yes.
The Soviet troops occupied Someri in the early Winter War and left the island perhaps 30th December 1941 to Lavansaari.

Regards, Juha

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by igorr » 26 Feb 2010 05:15

Soviet troops leave island Sommers (Someri) on 31.12.41. Before - on 19.12 and 27.12 there were two attacks from finns on island, at leasr it recorded in Chronic.
First mention about SNiS ("СНиС" in russian) post on island in Chronic was 3.9.41. Then on 20.9.41 aircrafts attacked this post and sunk near island TKA Nr. 91(94) and damaged Nr.24(83). Next day Nr.21 (24) was damaged. May be, by finns?

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Mangrove » 26 Feb 2010 10:27

igorr wrote:Before - on 19.12 and 27.12 there were two attacks from finns on island, at leasr it recorded in Chronic.
2. Rannikkoprikaati [SPK 21488]

19 December. 8.00 a.m. - 3.45 p.m. A patrol lead by an officer (1+1+5) approached Someri to the distance of c. 400 - 500 meters during an ice [thickness /Martti] patrol. On return trip the patrol was shot at with two or three short bursts from 19mm machine gun at a distance of four kilometers.
19.12. [...] 08.00 - 15.45. Ups.partio 1+1+5 eteni jäätiedustelumatkalla n. 400 - 500 m päähän Somerista saaden paluumatkallaan 4 km etäisyydeltä 2-3 lyhyttä 19mm kk-sarjaa.
26 December 12 a.m. Luutn. Aittola + four [men] left towards Someri where they saw two men running to [MG-]nest and one to tower. C. ½ nm behind Someri a ship's chimney was spotted and a smoke trailing towards south. The patrol did not land due of lack of ammunitions. Smoke was rising from a rock basin.
26.12. 12.00. Lähti luutn. Aittola + 4 partio matkaan Someriin, jossa havaitsivat kahden miehen juoksevan pesäkkeelle ja yhden torniin. N. ½ mpk. Somerin takana havaittiin laivan piippu ja savu matkalla etelään. Partio ei käynyt maissa, koska heillä ei ollut riittävästi ammuksia. Kallionnotkosta nousi savua.
igorr wrote:Then on 20.9.41 aircrafts attacked this post and sunk near island TKA Nr. 91(94) and damaged Nr.24(83). Next day Nr.21 (24) was damaged. May be, by finns?
Lentolaivue 6 [SPK 17823]

20 September 1941 [...] 8.20 a.m. Kapt. Siren from Merivoimien Esikunta reported that German aerial reconnaissance had saw two large submarines at Someri harbour. Message sent by radio to [Finnish] plane between Pellinki and Suursaari. No submarines were sighted. Kette [a three plane V-shaped bomber formation] S. later reported that it had attacked the submarines with four bombs.
20.9.41 [...] 08.20. Ilmoitti kapt. Siren MeVE:sta, että aamulla oli saksalaisten lentotiedustelu nähnyt Somerin satamassa 2 suurta sukellusvenettä. Asia ilmoitettu radiolla koneella, joka Pellingin ja Suursaaren välillä. S-veneitä ei enää havaittu. Myöhemmin ilmoitti Kette S., että s-veneitä vastaan hyökätty 4 pommilla. [...]
2. Rannikkoprikaati [SPK 21488]

20 September. 2.15 p.m. Own aerocraft flew over Someri and probably bombed it since a fire broke out at Itäpohja harbour and explosion clouds rose up now and then. 2.50 p.m. A larger explosion occured at the site producing a large, c. 150 meters wide and 250 meters high, cloud. [...] 5.10 p.m. Aerial bombing at Someri. [...]
20.9. [...]
14.15. Oma lentokone, joka lensi Somerin saarella, todennäköisesti pommitti saarta, koska itäpohja satamassa syttyi tulipalo ja sieltä silloin tällöin nousi räjähdyspilviä.
14.50. Tapahtui palopaikalla voimakaampi räjähdys, jolloin suuri, n. 150 m. leveä ja 250 m. korkea räjähdyspilvi nousi ilmaan. [...]
17.10. Lentopommitus Somerissa. [...]

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by igorr » 26 Feb 2010 11:12

Soviets reports say about repulsed attack of 50 finns 19.12.41!!! Most imoressive overclaiming. On 26.12.41 reports correct saying about "ski patrol".
Tanks for finnish side of view.

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Juha Tompuri » 27 Feb 2010 21:42

igorr wrote:Soviet troops leave island Sommers (Someri) on 31.12.41.
According to booklet Ulko-Tammio - Jatkosodan linnake (Ulko-Tammio - Continuation War era fortress) Finns had on 291241 dropped leflets at the Island, demanding the Soviet troops there to capitulate within 48 hours. 311241 after the deadline a Finnish patrol led bt Ltn Aittola started to move from Island Ulko-Tammio towards Someri. At the same time a Finnish fighter patrol flew over Someri, noticed and deliverad a message to patrol Aittola that Someri seems to be empty, and lots of tracks at the snow towards Island Lavansaari. Finns also had captured a Soviet radio message that Someri should be emptied by 301241 2300 hours.
igorr wrote:Before - on 19.12 and 27.12 there were two attacks from finns on island, at leasr it recorded in Chronic.
According to the Ulko-Tammio - Jatkosodan linnake 250941 two man Finnish recon patrol landed at the East coast of Someri and after 10 min left the Island (reported killing two opponents, but receiving no enemy action in return)
According to book Taisteluhälyytys (Battle alarm) by Eino Pukkila, Finnish gunboats Hämeenmaa and Uusimaa, acommpanied with a VMV patrol boat, fired at Someri on nights 10/110941 and 13/140941.


igorr wrote:SFirst mention about SNiS ("СНиС" in russian) post on island in Chronic was 3.9.41. Then on 20.9.41 aircrafts attacked this post and sunk near island TKA Nr. 91(94) and damaged Nr.24(83). Next day Nr.21 (24) was damaged. May be, by finns?
According to book Laivat Puuta, Miehet Rautaa (Wooden boats, Men of Iron) by O. Peuranheimo, J. Pirhonen and K. Killinen Fiinish MBT flotilla asked 111041 permission to land at Someri as there been no indication of traffic for several weeks, only the wreck of a Soviet VMV-boat [MO-boat, JT] at the harbour, shot to a wreck by Finnish AF.
Finnish VTV-1 (ex Soviet Bronekater No.215[?]), MTB Sisu and a detachment of engineers from coastal troops took part to the recon mission (same day? , JT), but were forced to abort the mission because of enemy defensive actions.

Regards, Juha

BTW...
What were the approx. dates of Soviet era usage of the different Russian language/Cyrillic names of the Someri Island:
-Сомери
-Сомерс
-Соммерс

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by igorr » 28 Feb 2010 05:17

In soviet sides there was several shellings on island: 8.9.41 - 2 finnish cutters and one gunboat "Karjala"-type; 11.9.41 - as you already write - 2 gunboats under cover of 3 MTB. Second bombardment was on 25.9, but about 13/14 there is no mention. On 11.10.41 on island fired 3 gunboats.
Sunked near island "MO" - definetely TKA Nr. 91.
Decision about evacuating Sommers was make on 27.10.41 - along with other several islands.
Name in russian in wartime documentation is "Соммерс".
About soviet name of VTV-1 you absolutely right - she was bronekater Nr.215

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Mangrove » 28 Feb 2010 12:23

igorr wrote:In soviet sides there was several shellings on island: 8.9.41 - 2 finnish cutters and one gunboat "Karjala"-type;
2. Rannikkoprikaati [SPK 21488]

8 September. Reconnaissance mission to Someri. 3.35 a.m. Start with two reconnaissance boats from Ulko-Tammio. 4.10 a.m. 800 meters away from Someri. Listening. Nothing was heard. Closing in 300 meters from the shore and firing with "RR" [20 mm?] at the same time. 45 mm gun and two machine guns, on both sides of the gun, returned fire from the shore. Our boats returned to 1000 meters from the shore. 4.40 a.m. Russkies opened fire again. Two patrol boats came on sights from south side of the island. Ulko-Tammio fired nine rounds to Someri. [They] fell on the island, two at the dock side, [some] also on land. No damage to own boats.
8.9. Tiedust. matka Someriin: 3.35. Lähtö 2:lla tied.veneellä Ulko-Tammiosta. 04.10. Somerissa, 800 m rannasta saaren itäpuolella. Kuunneltiin. Ei kuulunut mitään. Syöksy 300 m:n päähän rannasta, samalla ampuen RR:lla. Maista, saaren kapeimmasta kohdasta, vastasi 45 m/m:n tykki sekä 2 kk:ä, tykin kummaltakin puolelta. Veneemme palasivat 1000 m:n päähän rannasta jääden odottamaan./ 04/.40. Avasi ryssä uudestaan tulen. 2 VMV:ttä saaren eteläpuolelta esille. Ulko-Tammio 9 laukausta Someriin./ Putous maihin, 2 laiturin puolelle, myöskin maihin. Omille veneille ei vaurioita.
igorr wrote:On 11.10.41 on island fired 3 gunboats.
11 October. Reconnaissance mission to Someri. 4 p.m. Start from Ulko-Tammio with a patrol of 1+0+12 aboard MTV "Sisu" and VTV 1 to Someri. While circling from west to south and last to east MTV Sisu was fired upon while it was 400-500 away from the island. The weapons were probably heavy machine guns, around 13-20 mm. The island was so proved to be occupied by enemy and troops are being transferred there. VTV and [a battery at] Ulko-Tammio fired Someri.
11.10. Tiedustelu Someriin: 16.00. Lähtö Ulko-Tammiosta tied.partio 1 ups + 12 miestä. MTV "Sisun" ja VTV 1:n mukana Someriin kiertäen lännestä etelän kautta itäkärkeen. MTV Sisun vastaan avattiin tällöin tuli saaresta, vene oli tällöin 400 - 500 m päässä saaresta. Aseet tod. näk. rask. kk. 13-20 m/m. Saaren osoittautuessa näin vihollisen miehittämäksi ja miehitysjoukkoja ruvettu sinne siirtämään. VTV ja Ulko-Tammio tulittivat Someria.

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by igorr » 28 Feb 2010 17:35

Thanks again!

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by Juha Tompuri » 28 Feb 2010 22:41

igorr wrote: but about 13/14 there is no mention.
Also according to the Navy HQ diary:
42 100mm (102mm, JT) grenades and 52 40mm grenades were fired from distances between 1600-2500m from South side of the island.
Enemy 40mm tracer return fire from the mid part of the island.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kui ... 400&sy=400

igorr wrote:Name in russian in wartime documentation is "Соммерс".
"Соммерс" also during Winter War era?
Here two scans from book Talvisodan Jäinen Loppunäytös (Icy final act of Winter War) by Heikki Tiilikainen and Ilmari Pusa.
The originals however are probably of post war era.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Island Someri/Sommers

Post by igorr » 01 Mar 2010 04:54

Sorry - i haven't documents about Winter War.
But i think, in various documents may be various names.

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