Maps

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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igor_verh
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Re: Maps

Post by igor_verh » 06 Oct 2014 08:33

Hello! I'm looking for the color map p-36-20 scale 1:10k of 1935, like this one: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=24753501, is it available somewhere at web or at digi.narc.fi? May be somebody know number of folder in National Archive at Helsinki, where it can be found?
Thanks in advance.

Mangrove
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Re: Maps

Post by Mangrove » 06 Oct 2014 08:55

igor_verh wrote:May be somebody know number of folder in National Archive at Helsinki, where it can be found?
P-36-20 Volna [Kalitsinsaari]
T-25966/7.4.2

Mangrove
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Re: Maps

Post by Mangrove » 18 Oct 2014 08:08

igorr wrote:
Mangrove wrote:Finland
Gulf of Finland
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=1585894 - 1:800 000. "Ilmoituskartta - Suomen lahti". Me.VE Toimisto IV. 1934. Finnish Navy Winter War era grid system.
Hello! Do anybody posses this map in better quality? Quadrats is not readable in this version. My need is Finnish Navy map-quadrat system until 1941, when it changed radically.
Here is a small excerpt of the aforementioned map, but now in colour. Another map covers the northern Baltic Sea and the Gulf of Bothnia.
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igorr
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Re: Maps

Post by igorr » 20 Oct 2014 04:14

O!
Big thanks for this map!!!

Mangrove
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Re: Maps

Post by Mangrove » 31 Jan 2015 18:48

East Karelia
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336006 - 1:100 000. The position of Finnish combat units under Ääninen Coastal Brigade in 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336010 - 1:100 000. The changes in position of Finnish combat units under Ääninen Coastal Brigade on 16 October 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336019 - 1:300 000. The position of Finnish combat units under Ääninen Coastal Brigade on 22 December 1943. The position of Soviet units east of Lake Olonets according to the Finnish intelligence. In colour.

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336000 - Finnish railway stations, the position of railway repair units and their strength between Maaselkä and Svir on 21 October 1942. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336003 - 1:400 000. Finnish military police and anti-guerilla units under the Olonets Group on 19 July 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336015 - 1:400 000. Finnish military police and anti-guerilla units under the Olonets Group on 28 October 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336014 - 1:400 000. The condition of Finnish supply roads under the Olonets Group on 25 October 1943. In colour.

Svir and Lake Onega
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336004 - 1:100 000. The position of Finnish combat units under V AK along Svir on 10 September 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336020 - 1:100 000. The position of Finnish reserve units under V AK along Svir on 23 December 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336021 - 1:100 000. The position of Finnish combat units under V AK along Svir on 27 December 1943. In colour.

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30335998 - 1:100 000. The position of Finnish combat units under VI AK along Svir in 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336009 - 1:100 000. The position of Finnish combat units under VI AK along Svir on 16 October 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336018 - 1:100 000. The position of Finnish combat units under VI AK along Svir on 8 November 1943. In colour.

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336002 - 1:300 000. Soviet units east of Lake Olonets according to the Finnish intelligence on 26 July 1943. In colour.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=30336005 - 1:100 000. The position of Finnish combat units under 7th Division on 26 September 1943. In colour.

Mangrove
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Re: Maps

Post by Mangrove » 17 Sep 2015 12:56

Karelian Isthmus and Ladoga Karelia
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=26.SARK. 1:50 000. Made between 1920 and 1946.

Lotvonen
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Re: Pirunsaari

Post by Lotvonen » 30 Nov 2015 09:14

A story from the interestingly named "Pirunsaari" front section is here.
A day in Carelian Devil's Island

Vihtori Kuivala
Journal "Kansa taisteli" vol. 06, 1975

(Pirunsaari is an island between Voljärvi/Belomorkanal and Poventsanjoki river. The island was several times contested in 1943, but Finns managed to keep it despite all. There were attempts to capture men for prisoners by both sides. Pirunsaari was considered to be the most dangerous spot of the Maaselkä front section.
[Coordinates: 62.916015, 34.899588] Tr. rem.)

Infantry Regiment JR35, the unit I belonged to, was cantonned in tents around lakes Heisjärvi and Valjärvi. In spring 1942 we had already plenty of experience although we were not informed about the front line. Judging by sounds of shooting we deduced that the action was some 2 to 3 km away. The front line was held by JR4 and they maintained the state of war.

We did not have time to get bored before it was rumoured that we would be transferred to some kind of front line duty.

It was 8b June 1942 as our popular Company Commander Capt. Vepponen came up to our tents and said: "Boys, tomorrow we are going to get our packs ready and load the tents in the carts".

We could sleep peacefully that night, the next morning we "packed up" as ordered by our Platoon leader, Cavalry Sec.Lt. Porvanen, who had been in the Spanish Civil war. At 2200 hrs we were ready to march in the direction of South. We, the 2nd Platoon of the 6th Company, arrived at the so called Canal section at midnight. We took the positions handed over by the previous manning, some of which told us: "We have been repelling the enemy in this spot for four months."

I was by chance assigned to the first sentry duty as a new man and I dearly would like to get some advice about the place, but the Jaeger, whose LMG nest I took over, just bagged his magazines, slung his LMG on his shoulder and said: "This is a devilish island" and was gone.

After initial difficulties as we got accustomed to our new stronghold we saw that the enemy was ahead of us on a high hill. They could freely observe us and our movements in our trenches and also in our supply point. There was nothing to hide us on the heather covered even terrain.

The half platoon dugout in which we were housed was situated about two hundred meters away on the Northern slope of the island. The communications trench to it was only about sixty centimeters (two feet) deep, due to the extremely rocky soil. Neither was it revetted or covered in any way. Due to the light summer nights we had no chance to improve it. Since the "Vanya" appeared to be very calm we began to grumble that it is not worth the trouble keeping sentries, just one man in night time would be enough. Platoon Leader Pornanen commented: "We would soon find ourselves in a POW camp beyond the Urals, boys". All right then, we did our sentry duty and when off duty played poker really earnestly.

Summer passed and the nights were getting dark. The canal in front of us, a shipping lane before the war, often became so foggy at night that we could not see any farther than a few dozen meters at worst. At least I did not protest when night time sentries were doubled. At the end of July the "neighbour" began to get very active. In daytime they began to bracket our dugouts with their artillery and in the night their patrols sneaked in the no-man's land. Alerts and occupying our positions at night became commonplace.

August the1st at 2200 hrs the sentry reported that there had been a ten man enemy patrol right at the hindrances that were made up of wire cylinders. There was a blind corner to the front at left, it had been secured with "Spanish riders". "All right boys, alert" our Platoon Leader shouted, but some of us had already taken their positions without waiting for orders, because we knew it is easier to take unmanned positions than those manned by the enemy. We stayed there for one or two hours, but as nothing unusual happened, we returned to our dugout and only the usual two sentries was left to guard our sleep.

I was woken up at 0400 hrs by the "stove sentry" telling me to " wake up and get going". My pair was Pvt Eino Järvinen, whose nickname due to his tall stature was ´"Jämsä boy". We had been in the post for half an hour as we heard some SMG bursts followed by explosions of hand grenades to the left of us, at the post guarded by our 1st Squad. Järvinen said: "Oh my, the boys of the first squad are nervous!". We did not pay any more attention to the matter as everything appeared to calm down.

At 0500 hrs our squaddie, Cpl. Mäkinen came to our nest and said: "Now boys get cracking, Vanya has taken by assault all the positions of the first and fourth squads, he is in the communication trench and likely soon at our dugout!".

Since everyone of us had an automatic weapon we decided at once to proceed carefully along the communication trench as far as possible, because getting out of it would make us easy targets.

We started, Järvinen leading, me a couple of meters behind him and Cpl. Mäkinen behind me. At the very moment the enemy mortars started shelling our dugout and our rear, bombs just rained down.

We had advanced about 60m to the crossing where the trenches to each dugout started, we began to sneak toward one of the dugouts. Suddenly bullets started flying at us from the nests to the right of us. Judging by the muzzle flames at least ten automatics were in action. We had crept on about ten meters along the shallow trench as Järvinen suggested: "Let's remind them that they, too, are mortals".

We sought good positions for our weapons and retaliated to the enemy fire. I had three SMG magazines that soon were emptied. Järvinen who fired only brief bursts spent more time in using his ammunition. Imprudently he stood up at the edge of the trench to observe the terrain. At the same moment the island took his first toll from us. A bullet pierced his temple and he slumped to the bottom of the trench. We examined him and could only state that he did not need neither care nor bandaging. I dropped my empty SMG and took Järvinen's which I used to shoot at the enemy LMGs firing at us at thirty meters .

Again I started crawling to the dugouts, followed by the Corporal. Arriving at the dugout I saw our Platoon had been assembled next to our dugout in an old sand pit that was about 30m wide. The boys had formed a horseshoe shaped line that I joined. Our resourceful Lieutenant did not let us wait there but began to organise a counterstrike that he ordered to start at 0700 hrs. We pooled all our hand grenades and ammunition, and we agreed that each squad would take turns leading the charge.

We also agreed that two SMG gunners shall advance in the front and the rest of the squad shall keep hand grenades and satchel charges ready to secure the scouts. When we were ready we dashed in the communication trench ahead of the first Squad. The enemy started retreating and everything seemed to be going as planned. But as we came to our actual trenches the enemy started resisting us seriously. We began to suffer losses. Among others our Lieutenant was hit by a hand grenade that exploded at his feet and wounded him badly. We had a hard time saving our Leader who groaned in a loud voice.

As the enemy was just a few meters from us they must have thought that they were engaging suicidal men, although we did manage to throw several satchel charges in the nests manned by them. The enemy was constantly getting replacements in their positions. Our stronghold had only a meager store of hand grenades due to the calm summer, and now we had been using them and soon they were all spent.

The enemy saw our hopeless situation and started in their turn charging in the direction of our dugouts. We retreated and at 1000 hrs we found ourselves in the same sand pit where we had started. Now the faces of the men told me that some had started thinking at their nearest and dearest, that is they began to like themselves too much. The fact is that in an tremendously critical situation when the enemy has the initiative there is no soldier that would not change his countenance a little.

But as the initiative is ours the tension is relieved. But as the proverb says, when the need is great the relief is not far. The Battalion HQ had been informed of our less than brilliant success and a Jaeger platoon was sent to support us. They were with us at 1130 hrs, with a load of hand grenades, led by Lt. Hackzell.

We had the honour of participating in the distribution of hand grenades and we thought we had enough of them now.

Lt. Hackzell took us under his command and again we charged along the communications trench. The enemy had withdrawn in the defence trenches and received us with intense firing and hand grenades. Our Lieutenant was wounded badly and he perished while being carried to the first aid post. Sgt. Mustonen took the command and we started rolling the trench one meter at a time. We managed to take the first nests: the trench was terrible to look at. Dead enemies were lying in all different postures. Some had been mutilated into shapelessness, some had been charred black as coals. The battle noise deafened our ears and paramedics were called for. The trench ownership changed.

But also our sergeant's time was up since he, too, was hit by an enemy hand grenade and mutilated to shapeless. The enemy obviously had now had enough for the day since they unexpectedly disengaged and very cleverly took cover in the blind spot in front of our trench. It was 1400hrs as the last enemy soldiers dashed behind the lock gate of the canal in front of us.(Shljus 7 ? Tr.rem.)

The enemy took heavy losses but ours were considerable, too. More than 20 brave defenders of our stronghold, including three Platoon Leaders, had to make the supreme sacrifice that day. Next day we heard in the wireless the daily information bulletin of our GHQ, modestly stating that in the canal section the enemy reconnaissance patrol had penetrated into a stronghold but it had been repelled with a counterstrike, causing the enemy a great loss of men.

Later I had to fight in the purgatory of Carelian Isthmus and in the battle of Ihantala at the hottest spot but the strongest mental image of all I remember is this day in Pirunsaari.
(1861 words) - end of translation -

It seems Pirunsaari was next to hopeless place for the defender, it could be held only by taking constant losses. Why did the Finnish high command keep it then ?

kuuskajaskari
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Location: kakonkulma

Re: Maps

Post by kuuskajaskari » 17 Apr 2016 14:26

I´m trying to find a small lake named Karmanlampi. I think it should be found between lake Tolvanto and river Tuntsa.
6.D. command post was at that area until most of finnish forces left Werman-line Jan. 1942.
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Mangrove
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Re: Maps

Post by Mangrove » 17 Apr 2016 16:16

kuuskajaskari wrote:I´m trying to find a small lake named Karmanlampi.
Map showing the location of the HQ of the 6th Division during January 1942
Corresponding location in Google Maps

It seems the water level has risen since the 1940s, causing the lakes to have larger surface areas.

kuuskajaskari
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Location: kakonkulma

Re: Maps

Post by kuuskajaskari » 17 Apr 2016 17:13

Thank you. Looks like that place is very easy to go, even we have cars made of the road...

Mangrove
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Re: Maps

Post by Mangrove » 07 Sep 2016 19:33

http://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/105084 - 1:1 000 000. Gebiet Leningrad: Übersicht ("Leningrad Region: Overview"). 1941.
http://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/105085 - 1:1 000 000. Gebiet Leningrad: Verwaltungsgliederung und nationale Minderheiten ("Leningrad Region: Administrative divisions and National Minorities"). 1941.
http://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/105083 - 1:1 000 000. Gebiet Leningrad: Bevölkerungsdichte ("Leningrad Region: Population Density"). 1941.
http://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/105088 - 1:2 000 000. Gebiet Leningrad: Industrie und Kraftwerke ("Leningrad Region: Industry and Power Stations")
1941.

http://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/105082 - 1:1 000 000. Gebiet Leningrad: Strassenübersicht ("Leningrad Region: Overview of Roads"). 1941.
http://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/105089 - 1:1 000 000 (?). Gebiet Leningrad: Flugwesen : Gesamtübersicht der Bodenorganization ("Leningrad Region: Aviation: Overview of Base Organization"). 1941.
http://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/105081 - 1:1 000 000. Gebiet Leningrad. Schema der Eisenbahnen und Schiffahrtslinien mit Angabe der Bahnhöfe und Haltestellen ("Leningrad Region: Scheme of Railways and Shipping Lines, Indicating the Stations and Stops").

GregSingh
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Maps

Post by GregSingh » 07 Sep 2016 22:51

Excellent maps, thanks Mangrove!
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

prok
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Re: Maps

Post by prok » 27 Oct 2016 09:59

Good day!
Fragment of map 138 division 1940 from the Russian state military archive.
1.jpg

Interested, what is this map and where can you find the same.
Thank you.
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Mangrove
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Re: Maps

Post by Mangrove » 27 Oct 2016 11:11

prok wrote:Interested, what is this map and where can you find the same.
The base map seems to be a Finnish 1:20 000 map from the late-1920s or early-1930s.

prok
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Re: Maps

Post by prok » 27 Oct 2016 11:46

It is clear. But the inscriptions are all in Russian. I read that these cards were issued by the office of military topographers during the Winter war. Here and wanted to know where I can find them.

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