Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

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snake
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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by snake » 24 Jul 2010 12:11

Juha

Thanks for taking another look for me.

The last picture that you posted with the tank with number 424, is that an IS-2 for sure???

Were there russian units that had different type of tanks in the same company/platoon?

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Juha Tompuri » 24 Jul 2010 19:49

snake wrote:The last picture that you posted with the tank with number 424, is that an IS-2 for sure???
I think that, as I see, the track return rollers would indicate the (heavy) tank being of KV-family, and the big muzzle brake being quite rare among Soviet tank types.
snake wrote:Were there russian units that had different type of tanks in the same company/platoon?
Don't know.

Here some scans from Eino Pohjamo book Rauta Palaa (Iron burns)
One a simlified (= more clear) version of the 5th Aug-44 attack plan and another one of the Destroyed tanks between 300644 - 010744 at JR 12 operating area at Ihantala region.
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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Juha Tompuri » 24 Jul 2010 20:28

Here a scan from Viisi Sodan vuotta" of an aerial photo of the Ihantala area in question, photographed 280744

Regards, Juha
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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Juha Tompuri » 24 Jul 2010 20:38

Here couple of IS-2/IS-122 tanks mentioned being at Viipuri/Vyborg June 1944
Image

Image

Image
http://otvaga2004.narod.ru/publ_w1/2006-06-26_is1.htm


Regards, Juha

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by snake » 25 Jul 2010 07:33

Thanks Juha you have outdone yourself with all this info many thanks!!

I will either use the number 313 or 424 on my model, i amn not sure yet cause i know that the 424 was knocked out but you were not 100% sure that it was an IS-2 tank right? On the other hand the 313 is a JS-2 tank that was in Vyborg but i am not sure if it was knocked out later on.

Great pictures the last ones :D

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Juha Tompuri » 26 Jul 2010 20:57

snake wrote:I will either use the number 313 or 424 on my model, i amn not sure yet cause i know that the 424 was knocked out
312 is also an option.
424 seems to have some extra ventilation at the turret - quite safe to say "knocked out"
snake wrote:but you were not 100% sure that it was an IS-2 tank right?
Well... that is my guess, but what would be your opinion about the tank type?


Here two IS-2 tanks at Viipuri at about 6.55 min:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RBBVxS1 ... re=related

Image
http://hobbymaster.com.hk/gpower_48_js2.shtml

Regards, Juha

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by snake » 27 Jul 2010 07:32

When i compare with the picture of the model you posted i see no other option that the 424 tank is an IS-2 tank.

Great that you noted the "extra ventilation" at the turret, will put this "ventialtion" on my model/diorama also. You have helped me greatly to make this model/diaorama a authentic one. Again thanks many t(h)anks :wink:

When i am done with the model i can take a picture and post it here if you like.

Great youtube-clipp will add it to my faouvorites there!!

Ragnar

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Juha Tompuri » 27 Jul 2010 20:47

Hi snake,
snake wrote:When i am done with the model i can take a picture and post it here if you like.
That would be most interesting for all us to see.


BTW... one additional info (Pohjamo, Rauta Palaa) about the 5th Aug-44 raid to blow up the immobilized tanks/SPG's: there was also a finnish plan for to try to evacuate some of the Soviet tanks/SPG's.
There were two finnish tanks , a T-34 and a KV-1 that were prepared to use to tow 2-4 of the Sovit vehicles to finnish side.
The Soviet vehicle candidates were at least the numbers 3. 4, 6 and 12.
Some technical problems with the finnish tanks prevented that part of the operation.

Image


Regards, Juha

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Esa K » 28 Jul 2010 15:30

Hi.

Hope this is to some use, my interpretation of the "Destroyed tanks 30/6 - 1/7 1944 at JR 12 operating area at Ihantala region" map that was provided by Juha Tompuri above....


Number 1. T-34/76, tactical number 450, and should be from the 30th Separate Guards Tank Brigade.

Number 2. ISU-152, tactical number 1140, and I belive its from the 394 Guards Heavy SPG Regiment.

Number 3. T-34/76, tactcial number most probably 430, and should be from the 30th Separate Guards Tank Brigade.

Number 4. ISU-152, tactical number 1112, and I belive its from the 394 Guards Heavy SPG Regiment.

Number 5. Most probably a IS-2, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 6. IS-2, tactical number very blurry ???, but does it end with 25, or as suggested above 23? unit ?.

Number 7. A T-34/76, tactical number 455, and should be from the 30th Separate Guards Tank Brigade.

Number 8. T-34/76. Tactical number ? unit ?

Number 9. T-34/76. Tactical number ? unit ?

Number 10. Most probably an IS-2, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 11. IS-2, tactical number 312, and most probably from 27th Guards Heavy Breakthrough Tank Regiment

Number 12. Most probably an IS-2, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 13. Could be an IS-2, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 14. Probably a T-34/76, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 15. IS-2 tactial number 424, an interesting one, due to the number, could be that the 30th Separate Guards Tank Brigade had got some IS-2 tanks from an other unit or as reinforcment for earlier destroyed ones, the number seems to been painted on hastily...

Number 16. Could be a T-34/76, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 17. T-70, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 18. An IS-2 or a T-34/76, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 19 An IS-2 or a T-34/76, tactical number ? unit ?


Best regards

Esa K

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by snake » 29 Jul 2010 20:49

Great ESA where did you come by this infomation??


Ragnar

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Esa K » 30 Jul 2010 12:36

Hi
snake/Ragnar wrote:Great ESA where did you come by this infomation??
Thanks, and where the information comes from...? Have stared at those photos from Ihantala for ages, and have tried to read everything I have come across about it, and the result of that is (after much headache :lol: ), among other things, what I wrote above...


Best regards

Esa K

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by snake » 30 Jul 2010 17:31

Fantastic Esa a job well done i guess you have read the to books that Juhas photos is from as well then?

BTW could the nr 11 tank in your list (tactical number 312) be the tank on picture IS-2.1.jpg that Juha posted earlier? One of the first pictures he posted. The IS-2 on that picture that has slided down in a pit or something so that you can se it from behind/above/side in a kind of way? A picture of the same tank is also seen in a later post IS-2.62.jpg is the name of that picture.

Juha: About the maps, there are two different maps one from 5/8 and one from 30/6-1/7. Does tha maps show the same battle/knocked out tanks or is it two different battles? The roman numeros and the regular numbers on the other maps dosen´t match, i just noticed it now. Are the 5/8 map a plan how to tow away or blow up the tanks that were knocked out 30/6-1/7 or have i understood this wrong?

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Juha Tompuri » 02 Aug 2010 19:44

snake wrote:Juha: About the maps, there are two different maps one from 5/8 and one from 30/6-1/7. Does tha maps show the same battle/knocked out tanks or is it two different battles? The roman numeros and the regular numbers on the other maps dosen´t match, i just noticed it now. Are the 5/8 map a plan how to tow away or blow up the tanks that were knocked out 30/6-1/7 or have i understood this wrong?
The 3006-0107 map is of the tanks destroyed at that area at those two days.
the 0508 map is a part of a battle report made after the attack to complete the destruction of the tanks.
The numbering doesn't match but AFAIK the tanks do.

Regards, Juha

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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Juha Tompuri » 02 Aug 2010 22:09

Hi Esa,
Esa K wrote:Hope this is to some use, my interpretation of the "Destroyed tanks 30/6 - 1/7 1944 at JR 12 operating area at Ihantala region" map that was provided by Juha Tompuri above....


Number 1. T-34/76, tactical number 450, and should be from the 30th Separate Guards Tank Brigade.

Number 2. ISU-152, tactical number 1140, and I belive its from the 394 Guards Heavy SPG Regiment.

Number 3. T-34/76, tactcial number most probably 430, and should be from the 30th Separate Guards Tank Brigade.

Number 4. ISU-152, tactical number 1112, and I belive its from the 394 Guards Heavy SPG Regiment.

Number 5. Most probably a IS-2, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 6. IS-2, tactical number very blurry ???, but does it end with 25, or as suggested above 23? unit ?.

Number 7. A T-34/76, tactical number 455, and should be from the 30th Separate Guards Tank Brigade.

Number 8. T-34/76. Tactical number ? unit ?

Number 9. T-34/76. Tactical number ? unit ?

Number 10. Most probably an IS-2, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 11. IS-2, tactical number 312, and most probably from 27th Guards Heavy Breakthrough Tank Regiment

Number 12. Most probably an IS-2, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 13. Could be an IS-2, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 14. Probably a T-34/76, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 15. IS-2 tactial number 424, an interesting one, due to the number, could be that the 30th Separate Guards Tank Brigade had got some IS-2 tanks from an other unit or as reinforcment for earlier destroyed ones, the number seems to been painted on hastily...

Number 16. Could be a T-34/76, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 17. T-70, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 18. An IS-2 or a T-34/76, tactical number ? unit ?

Number 19 An IS-2 or a T-34/76, tactical number ? unit ?
Exellent work.
However...
IF...
I = 2
II = 3
III = 6
IV = 5
V = 4
VI = 7
VII = 12
VIII = 8
IX = 9
X = 13
XI = 14
XII = 16
XIII = 15
XIV = 10
XV = 11

...then according to this:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kui ... 400&sy=400
No. 8 ( VIII ?) might be a IS-2
No. 9 (IX ?) might be a IS-2
No. 12 (VII ?) might be a T-34/76

No. III JS-122 (IS-2) Completely destroyed
No. IV JS-122 Burnt, turret damaged, gun barrel broken - pointing towards theground
No. V SU-152 (ISU-152) Completely destroyed
No. VI T-34 No damage observed
No. VII T-34 No damage observed
No. VII JS-122 Burnt, turret roof blown away.
No. IX JS-122 Burnt completely, engine compartment and turret roofs blown away
No. XI T-34 No damage observed
No. XII T-34 Turret slightly collapsed nose down
No. XII JS-122 Completely burnt
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kui ... 400&sy=400

Regards, Juha

Esa K
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Re: Destroyed IS2 tank in summer 1944

Post by Esa K » 16 Aug 2010 23:15

Hi
Juha Tompuri wrote:However...
Thanks, the primary sources mentioned above, (and thanks again) given, have still not belonged into my readings, but is now. Still, theres some discrepencies when looking at the photos, have to stare further...


Best regards

Esa K

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