Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical source

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John Hilly
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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#16

Post by John Hilly » 04 Apr 2011, 11:13

Philip S. Walker wrote:On page two of the novel Linna goes on to insult the young recruits as well. First were hear some bragging stupidly about drunkenness, then a country boy named Mäkinen is introduced as a kind of representative of the average Finnish soldier (he doesn't appear in the novel otherwise). He is a bit of a sad fool trying to live up to the ideal of the Finnish soldier, and his view of the world situation is extremely narrow minded.
Actually Mäkinen was Linna's 'Alter ego'. He has himself admitted being so childish, and ignorant, while entering the military service.
Great to read posts from all of you in this thread :D . I'll be back later...

Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#17

Post by John Hilly » 04 Apr 2011, 11:22

"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"


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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#18

Post by Philip S. Walker » 04 Apr 2011, 13:14

Actually Mäkinen was Linna's 'Alter ego'. He has himself admitted being so childish, and ignorant, while entering the military service.
Beautiful! Writers are sometimes accused of "stealing other peoples' lives", ridiculing and making fun of others who can't defend themselves etc. (a big court case over this has actually just ended in Denmark and the author in question won it.) I believe that if you take the mickey out of others as a writer, you should take the mickey out of yourself equally at the same time. Seems to be what Linna is doing here, too. Says a lot about the man.
Great to read posts from all of you in this thread
Thanks, and "good man yourself", as they say here in Ireland. I can't judge myself, but Hanski's two posts with pictures attached were almost classics in their genre. Honest and open, well-informed (as always), with some outstanding illustrations. CanKiwi is always a great read, too, but he almost superseded himself with this:
It is apparent in all the Finnish war novels I have read and its that basic conflict between a peoples basic character and the military-officer class who are rather more thoroughly indoctrinated. The challenge for any military is to adapt the core military requirements to best fit a nations underlying characteristics.
Amazing what good literature can do.

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#19

Post by John Hilly » 04 Apr 2011, 19:31

There's also a book-long comparison with two reserve officers.
Koskela, who's been promoted from conscript- NCO to an officer, without formal reserve officer's school - due to his bravery in the Winter War.
Kariluoto, being a educated student, with naive beliefs in the "Finnish Future Glory", and who learns during the years what the harsh reality is.
This comparison is done very tactfully, in the way, how the silent friendship between these two totally different youngsters develops.

This is only one of the many themes that goes through the Unknown Soldier. And I mean many...

With best for all
Juha-Pekka :milwink:
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Panssari Salama
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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#20

Post by Panssari Salama » 04 Apr 2011, 20:29

I have been reading the Lauri Törni / Larry Thorne biograph "Born A Soldier", first in Finnish, now I got an original copy in english.

Törni, a fanatic soldier at least by his reputation, but anything but a fanatic as an individual, it seems. Rather, a quiet man, leads by an example, has a nasty streak often when drunk. Quite a stereotype, in that.

I believe here we have a recurring theme as well. As long as a leader - even a high ranking officer - leads by an example, leads from the front, commanding "C'mon!" rather than "Go and get'em!", he is accepted and followed.

Lots of examples in Unknown Soldier as well. The old jaeger Captain Kaarna, very much a no-nonse professional soldier, dying in the beginning when showing an example. Kariluoto becoming accepted towards the end of the book, as he realises this behaviour model as well.

A good example of a Finnish high ranking officer, very much Prussian in other aspects, but always leading from the front, and making himself familiar with the plight of the front line grunts, was of course Lt Col (at the time of WW II) Adolf Ehrnrooth.

Almost a cult person, but as far as I know very much a real thing?

Just another thought on the subject. What do you think?

Regards Petri
Panssari Salama - Paying homage to Avalon Hill PanzerBlitz and Panzer Leader board games from those fab '70s.

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#21

Post by Vaeltaja » 04 Apr 2011, 20:45

Watching the 'Unknown Soldier' was marked for us as 'mandatory service'. So only those with active service were able to avoid watching it in the army...

Its good to keep in mind that in general Lammio is thought to be an amalgam of everything Linna hated about the cadet officers. Basically a man who is in position of command without any real ability to command - other than his rank. Quite contrary to Kaarna, Koskela, or even Kariluoto.

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#22

Post by Philip S. Walker » 04 Apr 2011, 21:15

Some of the criticism in Finland against "Unknown soldier", at the time it was published, was that Koskela was a very unique person and you can't use him as an example for how low ranking officers in general should act, because there will only be a very small amount of such people in any population. There's some logic in this, but it overlooks the fact that Linna wasn't writing an instruction manual. If you think he is 100 pct. pro-Koskela, you're wrong. The most obvious example that springs to mind is the scene where Lehto shoots the Russian prisoner.
Koskela gave Lehto a side glance. His voice wasn't really accusatory, rather slightly evasive, as he said:
- That was unnecessary. He wasn't that type of person.
- Who the hell would bother to distinguish between them.
Lehto let out his piercing laughter, which always seemed so abysmal to them.
- You shot him from behind. He wasn't trying to escape at all.
Hietanen var outraged.
p. 104

Koskela is outraged, too, but only on the inside. A "hint og anger and dissatisfaction" is the only kind of reprimand Lehto receives for this extremely serious crime. And it isn't because Koskela is of the same opinion as Lahtinen that the general madness of war can justify what Lehto has just done. "He had more clearly than all the others realised how low Lehto's act had been," Linna says (p. 105). Still, Koskala just quietly leaves the situation, as he in fact often does. He doesn't even consider for a moment to put an end to Lehto's behavior. "And then this deed faded away as well, without anyone learning anything from it." And sure enough, it isn't long before Lehto shoots his next prisoner.
He shot a prisoner and said he couldn't bear to hear the man whimper. No one gave this occurrence a second thought. They were now fully formed soldiers.
(s. 148)

I'll return a little later. I just need to get rid of the goose pimples first. I read this book first when I was 14 and it still gets me every time.

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#23

Post by Lotvonen » 05 Apr 2011, 08:00

John Hilly wrote: Koskela, who's been promoted from conscript- NCO to an officer, without formal reserve officer's school -
I must disagree with this, I am sure Koskela completed his 105 day Reserve Officer course in 1940. There was a shortage of officers and time to train suitable men. I do not remember word by word how Linna described Koskela's early military career .

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#24

Post by Philip S. Walker » 05 Apr 2011, 11:08

Lotvonen: I am sure Koskela completed his 105 day Reserve Officer course in 1940
In Chapter 1/II it says:
The men had heard that he had distinguished himself in the Winter War. Personally he never said a word about it. All that was known was that towards the end he had served as a company commander though his rank was only sergeant. After the war he had been ordered to go to the Officer's Academy and had remained in the army on "extra ordinaire stat". In the service he was a man of few words, a bit clumsy but matter-of-fact and as good an instructor as anyone.
From Swedish

The privates had heard rumours about his deeds in the Winter War. Personally he never uttered a word about it. But it was known that towards the end of the war he had served as a company commander, while he was still only a sergeant. After the war he had been ordered to go to the Officer's Academy and had remained in the army as "honorarlønnet fændrik". In the service he was quiet, a bit clumsy, but matter-of-fact, and as an instructor he was as good as anyone.
From Danish
Both translations mention that Koskela in fact did go to the officer's academy, though he obviously only attended a course as a reserve officer. However, there are several dark areas in this for me which I wonder if someone could clear up.

1) It looks strange to me that you can actually be ordered to go on such a course. In the Danish army you can, as a conscripted soldier, be ordered to go to "Sergeant School" (Sergeantskolen), but not to the Officer's Academy (Officersskolen).

2. The Swedish version says that Koskela has "destinguished" ("utmärkt") himself in the Winter War. The Danish version talks about "deeds". More precisely the Danish word is "bedrifter", which has an adventurous tint to it, something non-official, where the Swedish word clearly suggests that Koskala has done things that are seen by "the system" as positive. Since there's quite a difference here I would like to know which one comes closer to the original text.

3. In the Swedish translation Koskela is given the rank of "fänrik" (not mentioned in this particular quote). I believe that is correct. The Danish rank "fændrik" is weird. It's an old title that was used for the soldier carrying the flag during battle (it says in a famous old Christmas song about a boy who is allowed to carry a flag: "Du er frisk, og du har mod./Du skal være Fændrik", i.e. "You are fresh and you have courage./You will be Fændrik"). The rank was not used in Denmark during WWII, but it was reintroduced for a while in the 1950s when Linna's book was published and translated into Danish, which may be why the translators have used it. However, the rank was at this time (spelled without the silent "d", incidentally) used for long-serving professional NCOs, like the English Sergeant-Major I suppose (or someone like Korsumäki in this book). So clearly this is not the correct title to use for Koskela in a Danish translation. But was is then? To get to the bottom of this the easiest thing would probably be to determine what Koskela's rank would be in English, and I suppose Second Lieutenant of the Reserve comes closer than anything. In that case the Danish title would be "sekondløjtnant af reserven" or "reservesekondløjtnant" (yes, we can make long words, too!).

4. The Swedish translation says that Koskela is "extra ordinaire stat", which I have no idea of what might mean. The Danish version talks of him being "honorarlønnet", which means you are not paid on a steady basis, but for each job that you carry out. For instance, as a translator I am paid a certain fee for translating a book, not by the hour or anything like that. Again, this makes no sense in the case of Koskela, so I hope Finnish members cast some light over this as well. Would be much appreciated!

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#25

Post by John Hilly » 05 Apr 2011, 12:17

Lotvonen wrote:I must disagree with this, I am sure Koskela completed his 105 day Reserve Officer course in 1940. There was a shortage of officers and time to train suitable men. I do not remember word by word how Linna described Koskela's early military career .
Sorry, my brains ain't what they used to be. :cry:
Philip S. Walker wrote:1) It looks strange to me that you can actually be ordered to go on such a course. In the Danish army you can, as a conscripted soldier, be ordered to go to "Sergeant School" (Sergeantskolen), but not to the Officer's Academy (Officersskolen).
Koskela was still a conscript, which period was increased to two years. Therefore, he could be orderd to the "RUK" - Reserve Officer School. To be a cadet was, and is, naturally volunteerly.
Mixing the Military Academy and "RUK", seems to be common for the outsiders. We shall remember though, that to be able to attempt to the "Kadettikoulu" or Military Achademy one had to perform the "RUK" first.
In Finnish Army there is no short cut to be a cadre officer. You must push it through from "Alokas" - rookie - to Officer candidete, and then at Your service end to be promoted to the rank of "Vänrikki" - Second liuetenant in reserve.
Philip S. Walker wrote:4. The Swedish translation says that Koskela is "extra ordinaire stat", which I have no idea of what might mean. The Danish version talks of him being "honorarlønnet", which means you are not paid on a steady basis, but for each job that you carry out. For instance, as a translator I am paid a certain fee for translating a book, not by the hour or anything like that. Again, this makes no sense in the case of Koskela, so I hope Finnish members cast some light over this as well. Would be much appreciated!
Koskela was commisioned as a temporary officer with Second Lt.'s pay.

I hope that my writing is at least somewhat understandable!

Greets
Juha-Pekka :milwink:
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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#26

Post by Philip S. Walker » 05 Apr 2011, 12:30

Thanks John Hilly!

Incidentally, in the final volume of Linna's famous trilogy, Chapter 9/I, there is a fine description of Vilho Koska at home on leave after the Winter War and shortly before going to the RUK.

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#27

Post by Jagala » 05 Apr 2011, 12:37

Vaeltaja wrote:Its good to keep in mind that in general Lammio is thought to be an amalgam of everything Linna hated about the cadet officers.
Linna made no secret ot that when he was writing the novel and spoke about it among his circle of friends who were both inclined towards literature and veterans with very much the same experiences.
Vaeltaja wrote:Basically a man who is in position of command without any real ability to command - other than his rank. Quite contrary to Kaarna, Koskela, or even Kariluoto.
Oh no! The thing Lammio is that he *is* a capable officer and professional soldier, it is just that he is spoiled rotten by a completely misguided ideal (which he has bought 100% because he is - and here I'm interpreting freely beyond what the author wrote: a fatherless son and a man without qualities of his own).

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#28

Post by Jagala » 05 Apr 2011, 13:16

John Hilly wrote:Mixing the Military Academy and "RUK", seems to be common for the outsiders. We shall remember though, that to be able to attempt to the "Kadettikoulu" or Military Achademy one had to perform the "RUK" first.
In Finnish Army there is no short cut to be a cadre officer. You must push it through from "Alokas" - rookie - to Officer candidete, and then at Your service end to be promoted to the rank of "Vänrikki" - Second liuetenant in reserve.
During the period described in the book, RUK was actually UK (and relocated in Niinisalo) and therefore Koskela gets sent to Upseerikoulu. Lammio doesn't enter the Kadettikoulu, because it has been renamed Maasotakoulu. ("Land Warfare School").
John Hilly wrote:Koskela was commisioned as a temporary officer with Second Lt.'s pay.
He was still a reserve officer, i.e. he did not get an active commission.

PS the character of Koskela was criticized also for being quite unlikely. After the Civil War the Army kept a watchful eye on the (political) background of recruits and sons of sentenced Reds (such as Akseli Koskela) would have had an asterisk next to his name. He would not have been sent to reserve NCO training without discussion and an OK from someone and some argued that no matter how bravely and resourcefully he had acted or what a born leader he had shown himself to be in the Winter War, he would never have gotten into the UK in real life.

PPS Linna doesn't tell much about Lammio's background, but IMHO he would almost certainly have fought in the Winter War as a conscript (until he would've been sent into the UK in January or February).

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#29

Post by Jagala » 05 Apr 2011, 13:22

Philip S. Walker wrote:Incidentally, in the final volume of Linna's famous trilogy, Chapter 9/I, there is a fine description of Vilho Koskela at home on leave after the Winter War and shortly before going to the RUK.
Linna once said that one of the things that got him to write the trilogy was the criticism that Koskela was not a credible character and he made a promise to himself to portray his background in such a way as to change that (as well).

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Re: Väinö Linna's novel "Unknown Soldier" as a critical sour

#30

Post by Philip S. Walker » 05 Apr 2011, 14:46

Jagala: The thing about Lammio is that he *is* a capable officer and professional soldier
I don't remember much being said about Lammio's professional military qualifications. Generally, Linna seems more interested in what you might call "people skills". But Lammio is constantly described as being extremely unpopular among the men. If at least he was a good company commander he would ensure low losses during fighting and I doubt they would hate him quite so much ... ?

With regard to his background, I think that all Linna says is this:
Lammio was a career officer and had been decisively spoiled at the Officer's Academy. There he had picked up manners which the old captain [Karna] couldn't observe without grinding his teeth. The privates didn't just hate Lammio himself but also his sharp voice and his over exaggerated pronunciation when giving orders.
Chapter 1/II

By the way, there are a couple of other small mysteries here. In the beginning of the novel Lammio is commander of 1st Platoon. Are we ever told who replaces him when he takes over the company?

Koskela, of course, is leader of 3rd Platoon. But what about 2nd Platoon? I think all we are told is:
He was a young, conscripted second lieutenant, a boy who had recently passed his 'A' levels at a West Finnish provincial college and now did his best to live up to the mythology surrounding reserve lieutenants by being pompous.
Chapter 1/II

He does feature a bit more in both the film versions, as far as I recall.

Karna is an interesting character because he would probably be very far from Linna with regard to political views, yet he is portrayed very positively simply because of his human qualities. Yet another example of Linna's literary strengths. Reviewers and others who live from analysing literature often want to pigeonhole writers politically because it's something they can understand :lol: , while the metaphysical aspect is something you need to use your intuition to perceive. There are lots of politics in Linna's novel, but primarily his aim is much higher. He's not giving you simple solutions, he's trying to make you think for yourself. To that end he is constantly and deliberately teasing the reader by almost giving him the easy stuff but then suddenly he will puncture whatever image he is presenting, such as in the aforementioned example of Rokka.

There is also a teasing element in the presentation of Karna. It is pretty long and detailed, so the reader doesn't exactly expect the man to die in the very first battle scene. Hence, his death comes as more of a shock than would otherwise be the case.

Even more important, perhaps, is this simple question: Does Karna in reality commit suicide? We know that he has been in the Winter War so he must be aware of the effect of modern weapons. He's not one of those who still thinks this is the Aunus Operation or something similar, so the way he tries to lead his men into the attack seems not only insane but also irresponsible. A company needs a good commander, and Karna knows the kind of trouble he is causing his men by dying. A kind of trouble named Lammio.

So all in all, what on Earth is going on there? Something you have to be Finnish to understand perhaps?

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