76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

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John Hilly
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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by John Hilly » 16 Sep 2011 12:05

Juha Tompuri wrote:During Winter War they served at Finnish Navy (Coastal artillery being part of it)
There seems to be some contradictory info about the user of Putilovs. Here, again:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/AA_GUNS3.htm#76ItK14

And in Viipuri area was situated also ItR 2 (vs. RTR 2), which belonged to Finnish Air Force (Anti-Aircraft-Artillery was part of it). 8-)
There seems to be a lack of sources considering the use of outclassed AA-gus in Winter War.
Sorry that I lost Ahti Lappi's E-address, which I used to have, Lappi being the foremost authority in AA-history.

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Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 16 Sep 2011 12:46

John Hilly wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote:During Winter War they served at Finnish Navy (Coastal artillery being part of it)
There seems to be some contradictory info about the user of Putilovs. Here, again:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/AA_GUNS3.htm#76ItK14
Actually no contradiction, just perhaps misunderstanding:
jaegerplatoon wrote:During Winter War Finns still used them as AA-guns and for that their aiming system was also improved. During Continuation War they were used by Coastal Artillery
John Hilly wrote:And in Viipuri area was situated also ItR 2 (vs. RTR 2), which belonged to Finnish Air Force (Anti-Aircraft-Artillery was part of it). 8-)
There seems to be a lack of sources considering the use of outclassed AA-gus in Winter War.
Sorry that I lost Ahti Lappi's E-address, which I used to have, Lappi being the foremost authority in AA-history.
No problem - Ahti Lappi et al. write at Itsenäisen Suomen Ilmatorjuntatykit 1917-2000 the following about the Putilov guns:
...Tykit luovutettiin 12. 10. 1939 merivoimille...
...Guns were transferred 12. 10. 1939 to the Navy...
1 + 1 = The Putilov guns were used as AA-guns during Winter War at Finnish Navy


Regards, Juha

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John Hilly
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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by John Hilly » 16 Sep 2011 13:30

Thanks Juha. You won!
This topic has interested me because of my AA-backround.
Never got money or effort to buy the book! :oops:

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Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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John Hilly
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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by John Hilly » 17 Sep 2011 11:28

Could they be these?
Ristiniemen alalohko
(Ristiniemi Subsector) Maj. N. Kesämaa (23.2.40-). Also called as "Ristniemi".
Ristiniemi:
1 - 305/52 O, Only one gun in working order. Decentralized and camouflaged.
2 - 76/30 IP, AA guns in open position. (Gun was also known as 76 It.K/14).
From:
http://www.oocities.org/finnmilpge/fmp_ ... ort39.html

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Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Swing » 17 Sep 2011 16:08

You are right, John Hilli. Here is an extract from a book "Paakkala-Kallola", indicated above:
"Lapinniemi is situated in a few kilometers from the Ristniemi fortress of Vyborg district. There were two three-inch guns. They were placed on the concrete basements. Cannons were old Russian "Putiloff' navy cannons. General Nenonen prepared shooting tables for them. Maximum shooting distance was 8 000 meters, main ammunition - grenades. Territory of battery was one hectare approximately and had barbed-wire fence. The area had two new houses for the staff. Commander - leutenant Viljakainen. Personnel (40 men) - members of Säkkijärven suojeluskunta mainly (I hope other forum members understand these two Finnish words).
By the way, I was at Lappinniemi two hours ago and found cannon's basements with 10 fixing bolts each. Distance between basements - 50 m approximately. 1st: N60 32,122' E028 13,804' ; 2nd: N60, 32,104' E028 13,761'
Last edited by Swing on 17 Sep 2011 19:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by John Hilly » 17 Sep 2011 17:09

Thanks a lot, Swing. Amazed that the basements are still left! :D
"Säkkijärven suojeluskunta" = "The Civil Guard of Säkkijärvi".

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 25 Jan 2014 23:01

The same guns were stationed at Island Kiuskeri during the Continuation War:
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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Swing » 28 Jan 2014 07:38

Great! Looks like Lapinniemi absolutely. Same rock and same pine. Thank you, Juha!

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 15 May 2014 19:11

Swing wrote:Great! Looks like Lapinniemi absolutely. Same rock and same pine. Thank you, Juha!
hmmm.... the photos are mentioned to have been taken at Island Kiuskeri 1942.

Just reading book Ilmavaara! Helsingin ilmapuolustus 1917-1944 (Air threat! Helsinki aerial defence....) by Ahti Lappi.
There is a mention that on noon 30th Nov-39 the Putilov section shot down a SB-2.

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Swing » 10 Mar 2019 18:41

AFAIK Putilov section at Lapinniemi had number #60 according to war diary of RISTINIEMEN ALALOHKO (SPK 3301). It's neighbour AA-battery had number #65. What about model of those guns?

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 20 Mar 2019 20:29

Hi!

Sorry that this has taken so long.
Hope this still is of a use.
Swing wrote:
10 Mar 2019 18:41
AFAIK Putilov section at Lapinniemi had number #60 according to war diary of RISTINIEMEN ALALOHKO (SPK 3301)
That's how I understand the issue too.
Even there seems to be some typos or something strange there.
It's neighbour AA-battery had number #65. What about model of those guns?
Based on from what I have read, I would quess, that that is the Satamaniemi 4 x 152mm Canet Battery
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1577556

...and the SPK 3301 mentioned Battery #66 probably is the 305mm Obuhov Battery at Ristiniemi.
Battery #70 probably being a typo, meaning actually #60.

Regards, Juha

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Swing » 21 Mar 2019 06:20

Thank you, Juha. If I understand correctly AA-battery №65 was to the west of №60 and fire sectors were different
Ristiniemen_alalohko_32.jpg
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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 21 Mar 2019 20:22

Swing wrote:
21 Mar 2019 06:20
Thank you, Juha. If I understand correctly AA-battery №65 was to the west of №60 and fire sectors were different
Yes, that's how I understand those too.

Do you know the locations of the shore defence Battery locations and weaponry during the Winter War?
Taisto writes here at page 74 that there were 2/57/48 Nordenfelt and 6/47/40 Obuhov (unspecific date)
http://www.rannikonpuolustaja.fi/wp-con ... 2013_4.pdf

Here at page 5, a veteran of Fort Ristiniemi (the 305mm Battery artillery forward observer) mentions the guns being 2 x two gun direct fire sections.
http://www.rannikonpuolustaja.fi/archive/1990_1.pdf

At the war diaries there are mentions of NR-Batteries (Nordenfelt) but I haven't (yet) seen any mentions of the 47mm Obuhovs.

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Swing » 23 Mar 2019 08:11

In the "History of RT2 1918-1940" (RANNIKKOTYKISTÖTYKMENTTI 2 1918-1940. HISTORIIKKI) by Teuvo Rönkkönnen there is a map and list of guns at the beginning of Winter War (by the way Taisto rent this book from me some time ago :) ) All Obuhovs 47 mm are indicated as navy (L=laivasto). Probably there were some reinforcements with 47 mm AA-version.
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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 23 Mar 2019 17:34

Thanks!

Even the mention of 57mm Hotchkiss guns puzzles me a bit.

Regards, JUha

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