76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 23 Mar 2019 20:10

Another memory of a veteran of Winter War from Ristiniemi.
This is I believe from March-40. It also mentions the 57mm guns as Nordenfelts.
Page 20:
http://www.rannikonpuolustaja.fi/archive/1985_1.pdf

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 25 Mar 2019 21:17

About Ristiniemi AA-defence during Winter War.
In addition to the two 76mm Putilovs, I have read about the following:

23rd Feb-40 AA-section Ahlberg (2x40mm?) is given to Ristiniemi fort http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=25332738

29th Feb-40 1540 hours Lapuri AA-battery shot three rounds. (Lapuri?) http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1625974

29th Feb-40 1800 hours A twin 20mm Madsen that had arrived yesterday, was transferred away to Kapula(?) http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1565520

29th Feb-40 1545 hours Lapuri AA-battery shot three rounds http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1565486

29th Feb-40 1550 hours Three fighter planes dived towards Nr-battery. Obsevation (fire control) tower AA-mg and the Madsen from the cape fired. http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1565486

5th March -40 1900 hours Came two 40mm AA-guns without gun crew. The section of 2nd Ltn Ahlberg manned the guns
2100 hours came an announcement that the other section with the crew from Ahlberg is to be sent to Suurpäälä http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1565521

10th March-40 1254 hours Lapuri shot twice,
1325 hours Lapuri fired four rounds
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1565509

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Swing » 27 Mar 2019 20:55

I guess 40 AA-section was transfered from Saarenpää. And pattery №65 had 2x47 mm on special AA-mounts. Similar mounts are described by Enqvist in "Itsenäisen Suomen rannikkotykit"

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 28 Mar 2019 08:38

Swing wrote:
27 Mar 2019 20:55
I guess 40 AA-section was transfered from Saarenpää.
Yes, the unit came from there. I'm not quite sure did the 40mm guns originate from there?
Somehow I think not.
pattery №65 had 2x47 mm on special AA-mounts
Have to check again, but if I remember correctly, the war diary mentions of AA-fire did not mach that well to the mentions of the action of the small calibre guns. However, if I remember correctly, there are mentions of the NR(?) battery firing aerial targets.

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Harri » 27 Oct 2019 00:37

Juha, Lapuri is an island in Virolahti nearly directly south from Ravijoki on the coast. No idea what kind of AA guns there would have been but I'd suggest 20 mm Madsen(s) perhaps?

I have tried to find out the ways of the Finnish AA units during the Winter War but despite there were so few units its a huge job because units moved a lot. And many war diaries are missing. Actually the best sources are the war diaries of AA offices/commanders of the higher HQs (army corps, division, group) and air defence centres [IPAK].

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Juha Tompuri » 27 Oct 2019 08:21

Harri wrote:
27 Oct 2019 00:37
Juha, Lapuri is an island in Virolahti nearly directly south from Ravijoki on the coast.
Yep, I know that one, but there is another Lapuri (cape?) more near Ristiniemi.
http://www.rannikonpuolustaja.fi/archive/1985_1.pdf pages 20-22

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Re: 76 mm AA-guns at Lapinniemi

Post by Harri » 28 Oct 2019 00:46

Yes of course, you are right. I dag my archives more and found out that there was at least one (or perhaps two) two gun 57/58 NR battery sections at Ristiniemi Fort. This light coastal battery (4 guns) was initially led by 2Lt.(Res.) K. Miettinen. Another battery section was perhaps moved away during the war because the author (A. Kurki) mentions only his 2 guns. Also there was "a not full coastal infantry company" in Ristiniemi.

I could not find accurate enough map to locate this another Lapuri. Where exactly was the mentioned fire control tower in Ristiniemi? Lapuri was mentioned to have been "east from the base" called "Niemenkärki" [Tip of the cape] around the fire control tower. There is nothing but see east from that point. Was Lapuri then a remote base on the ice deck? The only larger place mentioned east from Ristiniemi (or Ristniemi) is called "Lapinniemi".

I try to "chalk out" the possible time frames for future speculations:

The 40 It.K/36 Bofors AA section at Saarenpää Fort (lost on 22.2.40) was led by 2Lt. A. Arola. I too think this unit wouldn't have been in Ristiniemi.

Bofors guns could be from Mäkiluoto Fort (Helsinki Sector) because that AA battery section was there between 5.12.1939 - 3.2.1940, 22.2. - 6.3.1940 and since 14.3.1940. Where the guns were between the date gaps is a mystery to me. While at Mäkiniemi Section Leader was initially (until 3.2.40) 2Lt.(Res.) ?. Fellman and later between 22.2.-6.3.40 and since 14.3.40 (probably) 2Lt.(Res.) H. Hietanen. Was that battery section in Ristiniemi?

I also found piece of information that Capt. O. Pöyry was originally Chief of Tuppura Fort and there was one 20 ItK/30 BSW gun in AA role. Capt. Pöyry was replaced by Lt. B. Kytöpuro on 24.2.40 until Tuppura Fort was lost on 2.3.40. Where was that German light AA gun moved from Tuppura and when? I have no date when Pöyry took the leadership in Ristiniemi but could the BSW have "followed" Capt. Pöyry to Ristiniemi?

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