Partisans

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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Partisans

#1

Post by Juha Tompuri » 31 May 2003, 22:52

Reigo,

The "partisans" weren´t under Soviet military command. They were oganised, and got their orders from the Party (as your source is named: "Partisans and the Army").
About the orders to execute civilians I disagree with you. There are some ex-"partisan" interviews, where they admit that.

Regards, Juha

P.S. I think I´m not the only one eager to "hear" about your book :)

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#2

Post by Hanski » 01 Jun 2003, 11:55

Reigo stated that

"...It's more exact to call them commandos, long range diversionary groups or something like that (though the Soviets really used the word partisan). I think there is no evidence that they were directly ordered to kill civilians. Their main task was to disturb enemy rear (blow up military objects, destroy infastructure, attack enemy garrisons) so that the enemy has to tie up her troops for protecting the rear. "

Basically, that operational principle seems to have been much the same as with the Finnish long-range patrols, kaukopartiot. Indeed, the long-range patrolling in the Continuation war tied up plenty of Red Army resources in the rear, thereby relieving the pressure against the front. Besides demolishing ammunitions depots and traffic infrastructure, the Finnish patrols had an important mission of observation in the enemy rear to gather intelligence, which was then transmitted to the Headquarters by radio using morse code. The light-weight commando radio Kyynel (= "teardrop") was one of the most advanced equipment in its class at the time and conveyed plenty of valuable information to the Finnish High Command.

But that is where the analogy ends.

A decisive difference was that the Finnish long-range patrols always wore Finnish uniforms (without rank insignia), and thus in theory they would have been entitled to POW status if captured by an enemy complying with the International Law, and in practice they got back through the Finnish lines without being shot. Because their mission required them to remain unnoticed as long as possible, they strictly avoided all unnecessary engagement. The long-range patrols were manned by hand-picked elite soldiers with extraordinary physical fitness and endurance, survival skills in the wilderness, and calm nerves.

The Karelian "partisans" practiced entirely different "warfare". Besides wearing civilian clothing (which automatically deprived them of POW status), the Karelian "partisans" targeted isolated civilian farmhouses or villages, inhabited by elderly people, women and children, whom they either shot at close range, or first mutilated them with bladed weapons like bayonets or knives. After their return they reported remarkable military achievements like "destroying a garrison" etc., and were awarded high honours and celebrated as heroes.

There is plenty of detailed recorded conclusive evidence in Finland on these raids, including photographs taken on site afterwards and eyewitness accounts. Just recently this year 2003 a political decision was made in Finland to pay compensation to the 700 surviving victims on these grounds from social welfare funds -- the bureaucrats are not just handing out tax money without valid reasons these days!

It is beyond all doubt that the "partisan" atrocities fulfil the criteria of war crimes in their gravest forms, and indeed it is hard to see how a mentally sane person could commit such cruelty and cowardice against defenseless civilians. If the perpetrators indeed told lies afterwards and presented these as "military victories", which then were rewarded in good faith, it makes sense to assume some of them may indeed have been criminals released from prison against a commitment to engage in raids against the Finns.

I am also very interested to learn about quotes regarding the raids in Finland in the book Reigo has referred to.

Now, please don't make that silly claim "because one side did something, the other side must have done it as well". It simply isnt't true in this case, there is no such automatic symmetry! Cultural and historical backgrounds, as well as the prevailing political systems of each side, do have an effect on how people behave in peace and in war. Once more: Finland was not Nazi Germany, Finland was not Soviet Russia!

I am genuinely interested to read about any proven facts of Finnish atrocities in WWII, if such can be presented. Provocatory vague claims arising from prejudice or ignorance are less interesting.

Cheers,
Hanski


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#3

Post by Reigo » 01 Jun 2003, 17:45

I will make during next few days an overview of the chapter which deals our "partisans." The book is - V. Boiarski. Partizany i armia. Istoria uteriannyh vozmozhnostei. Minsk; Moskva, 2001. (Partisans and the army. History of lost opportunities). I left the book at home, but I don't have there internet connection.

But here's a piece of information which I wrote down: the groups' main activity was during 1941 - 1942. Afterwards there was a very low number of raids. During 1941-42 they made alltogether 449 raids and claimed 7 780 enemy killed and 130 prisoners. I guess the 130 prisoners number must be more or less true since I guess they had to show them to the superiors.
The "partisans" weren´t under Soviet military command. They were oganised, and got their orders from the Party (as your source is named: "Partisans and the Army").
Let's wait my overwiev. But what's your source?
About the orders to execute civilians I disagree with you. There are some ex-"partisan" interviews, where they admit that.
Can you please give more details? Was it "partisan" group commanders own initiative or the orders came from higher levels? (Sorry if you have posted this info already. I read the old thread very hastily)

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#4

Post by Reigo » 02 Jun 2003, 16:23

OK, here it is. A short overwiev of the pages 111 – 128.

On 31st August 1941 the Military Council of the 7th Army confirmed the plan of operative use of NKVD troops. According to this in army’s border-guard detachments diversionary-reconaissance groups were to be formed. They would be reinforced with local party activists. There were usually about 20-50 % of border-guards in these groups. It was planned that the groups will start to act in enemy rear and will disrupt enemy communications. The groups were concentrated into Special Companies (roty osobogo naznachenia) which later developed into partisan detachments (partizanski otriad).
“These acted according to the plans of the commanders of the border-guards regiments and according to the interests of the military command.”
In September also in 14th Army (order came from the commander of the army) it was started to form similar groups. Here also from the regular army few companies were used. But in the 14th Army they weren’t named as partisan detachments.

On 20th - 27th October 1941 904 men from the 101st Border-Guards Regiment (14th Army) made a raid in the Alakurtti area. The group consisted of two battalions, mortar company, MG company and some other sub-units. The leader was the commander of the 101st Rgt Colonel Zhukov. Being in enemy rear the group destroied over 200 enemy soldiers, 5 airplanes, 8 AA-guns. Also some warehouses were blown up. In November 952 men form the same unit made another raid to this area. The goal was to destroy the Alakurtti supply-station and liberate Soviet POWs there. Two Finnish battalions were crushed there, the enemy lost more than 300 killed, also 6 tanks, 13 mortars. The warehouses were destroied.

Major K. Bondiuk was the commander of the partisan detachment called “Vpered” In spring 1942 it made several raids in to the enemy rear. Later Bondiuk commanded a group of detachments (“Vpered,” “Burevestnik,” ”Zhelezniak,” “Krasnyi onezhets”) which destroied a Finnish garrison in Mergub.

Lt. F. Zhurikh commanded detachment called “Krasnyi partisan.” In summer 1942 it consisted 79 men and made four raids into enemy rear being there 96 days. 210 Finnish soldiers were killed plus 4 cars and one bridge destroied. On 15th June the detachment got the mission to destroi Finnish garrisons in Millah-Vienvara and in Hiuriu. On the way there the partisans encountered a group of 50 Finnish soldiers and crushed it. On 4th July the both garrisons were destroied. In 1944 Zhurikh commanded a group of detachments (“Krasnyi partizan,” “Boevoi klitsh,” “Leningradets”) and made several succesful raids and destroied some garrisons in Finnland.

Major I. Grigoriev commanded from February 1942 1st Partisan Brigade. It consisted of nine detachments, a mortar company, a MG platoon, a recon platoon and a management platoon. Alltogether 1 140 men. In summer 1942 the brigade (which at this moment consisted of 6 detachments – “Boevye druz’ia,” “Burevestnik,” “Za Rodinu,” “Mstiteli,” “Im. Toivo Antikainena,” “Im. Tshapaeva” – alltogether 648 men) made a 57-day expedition in the enemy rear. There were 26 clashes with the enemy. 196 partisans later got ordens and medals. This operation was carried out according to the orders of the Central Commite of the Communist Party of the Karelian-Finnish Soviet Socialistic Republic (CCCKFSSR) and of the command of the Karelian Front. Grigoriev was killed in battle on 31st July 1942. The brigade existed until 1st October and made during that time 68 raids. It was disbanded into 6 independent detachments since according to the experience it was too clumsy when operating in the enemy rear. The decision to disband was made by the CCCKFSSR and by the command of the Karelian Front. Thanks to the partisan activity the Finnish command had to tie up considerable forces in the rear.

Not always were the raids succesful. On 28th January 1942 a strenghtened company from the 181st Border-Guards Rifle Battalion went to a raid into the enemy rear. On eighth day the group was discovered and had to battle with a company of Finns whom supported 6 airplanes. The commander of the group estimated that the enemy lost 90 men killed and wounded. The group lost 25 killed and 36 wounded. Then the partisans tried to escape and for that the unit was split into several smaller groups. One of the group was ambushed by the Finns and it was almost completely destroied – 42 men were killed. The commander of this destroied group escaped, but was then shot at home.

In a report about the actions of the troops of the NKVD in 14th Army between 1st December 1941 and 15th January 1942 it was noted that most of the operations in the enemey rear were not completed, but often the units returned without reaching the goal.

In March 1942 the raids from the Murmansk Border-Guard District were finished and the troops were used now for protecting the rear area. The orders for this came from the Main Administration of the Border-Guard Troops (Glavnaia upravlenia pogranitshnyh voisk). After May 1942 the use of Border Guard troops in rear-area raids practically ended. From May 1942 until 1st October 1944 they made alltogether only 21 raids, mostly for reconaissance. During this period 155 enemy soldiers were killed or wounded, 12 taken as prisoners.

I must say that the author isn’t very clear here. He probably doesn’t include the Karelian Front partisan detachments into Border-Guards troops anymore. The partisans obviously were quite active also after May 1942. Also, when looking closer, it remains unclear whether the numbers which I gave before (449 raids, 7 780 dead enemies, 130 prisoners) describe only Karelian Front Border-Guards troop’s actions, or also the “partisans’s” deeds.

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#5

Post by Hanski » 02 Jun 2003, 21:21

At the website http://www.cec.jyu.fi/kesayo/geronet/tu ... isaani.htm , there is a study on the activities of Soviet Partisans in North-Eastern Laplans and the discussion on it in Finland in the late 1990s, by Ulla Sorvali.

It is unfortunately in Finnish only, but I will translate some parts of it below.

In her introduction the author refers to a TV documentary by Mr Risto Arkimies, broadcasted in the autumn of 1998, about the raids on Soviet partisans into the Finnish side of the Eastern border, with interviews of some survivors.

Ulla Sorvali’s study explores how raids of Soviet partisans during the Continuation War have been depicted in Finnish literature and newspaper discussions in the late 1990s. The study is restricted to partisan action within Finnish borders, in Lappish villages inhabited by civilians, and not for example in Eastern Karelia occupied by Finnish troops. Archive sources have not been used.

The author goes on to define partisans, as distinguished from desants and long-range patrols. “The partisans were not soldiers, but volunteer civilians, men and women, trained by the Soviet Communist Party, not by the military. The majority were members of the Communist Party or its Youth organisations. The partisan movement acted as an organisation of its own controlled by the party. Finnish-speaking Karelians, Vepsäs, and Finns were included (deserters of the 1920s and 1930s and their offspring).”

“After Germany attacked the Soviet Union on 22nd June 1941, Stalin gave an order to begin total resistance of the whole nation against the attacker. Partisan troops were initially founded in Ukraine and Byelorussia. The Germans treated cruelly the civilian population of their occupied territories, which led to merciless partisan warfare on both sides as the war went on. As distinguished from Finland, the partisans on German Eastern front had the support of the population.”

“2.2 Soviet partisans on the Finnish front

At the outbreak of the Continuation War in June 1941 there were already German troops in Northern Finland in accordance with the treaty on transit between Germany and Finland, and the Soviet Union regarded Finland as an ally of Germany. On the front against Finland the partisans consisted of less than 2000 people. The partisans raided 1941-44 a total of 23 civilian villages between Liperi and Sodankylä, and killed or captured all old people, women, and children they met. In the attacks 147 civilians died. In addition partisans killed or captured individual civilians on highways, paths, or in the forests. None of the partisan detachments attacked within our borders a village with a military unit of equal strength or even one capable of resistance in relation to the detachment.

The purpose of partisan activity was to pressurize Finland out of the war and to break the resistance of the civilian population by means of terror and weaken the morale of front line soldiers by making them worry about the security of their kin at home. One of the purposes was to tie up the scarce Finnish troops in counter-patrolling behind the front.

According to Erkkilä, small civilian villages were targeted for destructive raids because the partisans ran out of food and they were compelled to get it during their long journeys. In fear of being detected, all the inhabitants were killed. The most important reason was however that partisans had to get results in the fear of court-martial.”

Ulla Sorvali goes on to review Finnish literature on the subject.

“Seppo Sudenniemi in his book (Shadows of the Secret War) states that the casualties had no particular military significance, because the partisan raids were mostly targeted on civilians. Partisans avoided combat with strong military units. They however had an effect on the public opinion by spreading horror with their atrocities.”

“Helge Seppälä in his book (Finland as an Occupier) describes the occupation administration of Eastern Karelia 1941-44. There the active and passive resistance of the population dealt with the Soviet total defence against Germany and nations aligned with her. The orders for action came from Moscow to the Karelian front and further to the partisan movement with the same contents as to the fronts against the Germans.” – This addresses a question that Sokol and I discussed earlier, whether the Soviets knew whom they were fighting against.

Partisans remained after the armistice (4th September 1944) in North-Eastern Ilomantsi until early October, when even the provisional peace treaty of 19th September was in force. The last mine ambush took place on 11th September 1944 at Sarvivaara.

A journalist from Kittilä, Mr Veikko Erkkilä, took several trips to Russia and met 19 ex-partisans who had made journeys to Finland, including the only surviving commanders of partisan units. He received archive information from the state archives of Murmansk and Karelia, and from the partisan museum of the city of Polyarnye Zor. He got most assistance from a Russian historian, Mr Stanislav Dashinski.

Ulla Sorvali cites Mr Erkkilä in describing the incident at Seitajärvi village of the Municipality of Savukoski, nearly 100 km from the border, in summer 1944.

The Finnish sources describe the incident as an attack of about 50 partisans in the early hours of morning 7.7.1944 on the houses of the village, shooting several people, setting the houses in fire and ordering the rest of the villagers far into the deep forest. The partisans killed by shooting or with bayonets 11 women and children after having separated two villagers, who also disappeared. The eight-year old Mirja Arajärvi miraculously survived penetration twice with a bayonet, and could tell what had happened. Some villagers had managed to escape to a neighbouring village and to give alarm. A counter-partisan unit of the Finnish army went for pursuit and managed to shoot 34 partisans in three ambushes.

Mr Stanislav Dashinski acquired information for Mr Erkkilä on the Soviet partisan units that attacked Seitajärvi. The partisan units Polyarnik and Bolshevik had formed a united attack detachment with 48 men and women. According to the partisans’ knowledge there had been a strong garrison at Seitajärvi.

Mr Erkkilä interviewed Mr Valentin Smirnov, who had participated the raid in the age of 19, and also in Moscow Mr Giorgi Kalashnikov, the commander of Bolshevik, one of the two units that had attacked Seitajärvi. Mr Kalashnikov had told that Seitajärvi was chosen because it had a garrison with a regiment. Erkkilä told him about only a small Finnish guard squad against partisan attacks and that most of the casualties had been children, murdered deep inside the forest far from the village. Kalashnikov got upset about this, but did not argue when Mr Dashinski could confirm Erkkilä’s account. Mr Dashinski had earlier visited Finland and also some sites of partisan attacks, including Seitajärvi, and met survivors, including Mirja Arajärvi with her bayonet scars. Mr Kalashnikov seemed to have a genuinely false impression on the military strength of Seitajärvi and the attack on the village. He had mistaken the pursuing soldiers as being the same whom they had attacked in the village.


Reigo quoted the book V. Boiarski. Partizany i armia. Istoria uteriannyh vozmozhnostei. Minsk; Moskva, 2001. (Partisans and the army. History of lost opportunities) as follows:

“On 20th - 27th October 1941 904 men from the 101st Border-Guards Regiment (14th Army) made a raid in the Alakurtti area. The group consisted of two battalions, mortar company, MG company and some other sub-units. The leader was the commander of the 101st Rgt Colonel Zhukov. Being in enemy rear the group destroied over 200 enemy soldiers, 5 airplanes, 8 AA-guns. Also some warehouses were blown up. In November 952 men form the same unit made another raid to this area. The goal was to destroy the Alakurtti supply-station and liberate Soviet POWs there. Two Finnish battalions were crushed there, the enemy lost more than 300 killed, also 6 tanks, 13 mortars. The warehouses were destroied.”

To make it short, the story proves creative imagination. The Finnish Army, let alone the Air Force, certainly had no such resources to be left in God-forsaken Lappish villages in the middle of nowhere, while the offensive in Eastern Karelia was underway.

Cheers,
Hanski

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Deaths

#6

Post by Sami_K » 02 Jun 2003, 21:26

Reigo wrote:OK, here it is. A short overwiev of the pages 111 – 128.
Hello Reigo, thanks for the information. Any more details of the places where the partisan group operated between 20th and 27th October 1941 ?
You wrote "Alakurtti area"

I checked the database of how many Finnish soldiers died in and around Alakurtti between 20th October and 1st November and came up with 4 names:
1 Corporal ESKONNIEMI, NIILO 24th Oct 1941
2 Soldier HOOLI, EERO MATTI 26th Oct 1941
3 Lance Corporal UNTINEN, YRJÖ 24th Oct 1941
4 Soldier YRJÄNÄINEN, EELIS 28th Oct 1941.

If you have more detailed place names, you can check to some extent if the claims 'hold any water'
http://tietokannat.mil.fi/menehtyneet/i ... ?alku=tosi

BTW, I checked and a total of 58 Finns died in the Alakurtti area during the whole war.

Cheers,
Sami

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#7

Post by Juha Tompuri » 02 Jun 2003, 22:51

Reigo,

Sorry for the delay. Here´s reply to your Sunday 1st June post.
Reigo wrote: Let's wait my overwiev. But what's your source?
Thanks for your post.
About the sources: mainly I have relied to local library, but I have some "partisan"/partisan (as not all partisan units committed crimes, and at least the units at Onega region usually wore uniforms.) related books at my bookshelf:

Dimitri Medvedev: Uljaita Tekoja (Gallant Actions, or something like: Silnje Duhom [hope you understand. BTW do you speak Finnish?])
Dimitri Gusarov: Korpi ei tunne armoa (Wildernes "gives" no mercy, Za tsertoj miloserdija) and Partisaanimusiikkia (Partisan music, Za tsertoj miloserdija. Partizanskaja muzyka)
Pentti H. Tikkanen: Sissiprikaatin tuho ( the destruction of the partisan brigade)
Helge Seppälä: Neuvostopartisaanit (Soviet partisans) and Suomi Miehittäjänä (Finland as occupier)
Niilo Lappalainen: Äänisen rannoilla (At the shores of Lake Onega)
and some other books and magazines where the subject is shortly mentioned.

Regards, Juha

P.S. one answer to your "kill order" question is at library. I try to visit there as soon as possible.

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#8

Post by Bair » 02 Jun 2003, 23:45

Hey

there is another book in Russian written by General Kupriyanov (head of partisan movement in Eastern Karelia during Continuation War) which is called Za Liniei Karelskogo Fronta (Behind the Lines of Karelian Front).

It was published in 1970s, so I did not have the guts to read it, as it was almost pure propaganda and it was hard to read between the lines without knowing the subject.

But now I will try again and post some of the most interestign pieces on this forum. Yes the activities of Soviet partisans behind Finnish lines in Eastern Karelia are a sensitive question, but in my opinion, it should be discussed on a bit higher level than my conversation with Professor Baryshnikov Jr. 3 or 4 years ago in St Petersburg University -

when I mentioned Finnish sources for atrocities committed by Soviet Partisans in Karelia, his answer was "Finns also built concentration camps in Eastern Karelia that they had captured, so Finns were not clean either".

with best regards from Helsinki and St Petersburg,

Bair
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#9

Post by Juha Tompuri » 03 Jun 2003, 01:15

Reigo wrote:OK, here it is. A short overwiev of the pages 111 – 128.

On 31st August 1941 the Military Council of the 7th Army confirmed the plan of operative use of NKVD troops. According to this in army’s border-guard detachments diversionary-reconaissance groups were to be formed. They would be reinforced with local party activists. There were usually about 20-50 % of border-guards in these groups. It was planned that the groups will start to act in enemy rear and will disrupt enemy communications. The groups were concentrated into Special Companies (roty osobogo naznachenia) which later developed into partisan detachments (partizanski otriad).
“These acted according to the plans of the commanders of the border-guards regiments and according to the interests of the military command.”
In September also in 14th Army (order came from the commander of the army) it was started to form similar groups. Here also from the regular army few companies were used. But in the 14th Army they weren’t named as partisan detachments.
The "problem" seems to be which units were "real" partisan units and which military recon units. Helge Seppälä wrotes at Neuvostopartisaanit that first partisan units were formed 8th July-41. By mid August there were 15 units with total 1771 partisans. The CCCKFSSR (Party) organised their HQ.

Major K. Bondiuk was the commander of the partisan detachment called “Vpered” In spring 1942 it made several raids in to the enemy rear. Later Bondiuk commanded a group of detachments (“Vpered,” “Burevestnik,” ”Zhelezniak,” “Krasnyi onezhets”) which destroied a Finnish garrison in Mergub.

Where´s Mergub?
H. Seppälä reports of Krasnyi onezhets (135 man strong unit, reported have patrolled 19th Aug - 2nd Oct-42) attack against not a garrison but to a three house Viiksimo village (near Kuhmo) killing 8, wounding 2 civilians, stealing food and taking 4 cows to POW´s.
Lt. F. Zhurikh commanded detachment called “Krasnyi partisan.” In summer 1942 it consisted 79 men and made four raids into enemy rear being there 96 days. 210 Finnish soldiers were killed plus 4 cars and one bridge destroied. On 15th June the detachment got the mission to destroi Finnish garrisons in Millah-Vienvara and in Hiuriu. On the way there the partisans encountered a group of 50 Finnish soldiers and crushed it. On 4th July the both garrisons were destroied. In 1944 Zhurikh commanded a group of detachments (“Krasnyi partizan,” “Boevoi klitsh,” “Leningradets”) and made several succesful raids and destroied some garrisons in Finnland.
H. Seppälä reportsfollowing:
-42 summer 10 Finnish soldiers were killed in an ambush nesr Repola
- 5th July-42 Kiimasjärvi village was burnt down by a ca. 40 man strong partisan unit.
-couple weeks later a ca. 100 man strong unit tried to attack to Luhajärvi village
-5th July-42 two Finnish cars were destroyed near Juntusranta by partisans. Three women and two soldiers were killed
-9th July-42 two eldery people were killed and five other civilians wounded at Kuumu village near Kuhmo
- 15th June 1943 Krasnyj partizan (79 man strong, led by Zurikh) got orders to destroy garrisons of Millah-Vienvara ( villages Mahlavi and Viianki?) and Hiuriu ( single house called Hyry?). The trip lasted 95 days. They killed two civilians 26th June at Viianki village and took one as prisoner continued killing 11 civilians at Hyry house. At the night between 3/4 July when the villagers (of Viianki and Mahlavi) were about to go and bury the victims of the 26th June raid, the "partisans" attacked again: 20 civilians killed and several wounded.


Major I. Grigoriev commanded from February 1942 1st Partisan Brigade. It consisted of nine detachments, a mortar company, a MG platoon, a recon platoon and a management platoon. Alltogether 1 140 men. In summer 1942 the brigade (which at this moment consisted of 6 detachments – “Boevye druz’ia,” “Burevestnik,” “Za Rodinu,” “Mstiteli,” “Im. Toivo Antikainena,” “Im. Tshapaeva” – alltogether 648 men) made a 57-day expedition in the enemy rear. There were 26 clashes with the enemy. 196 partisans later got ordens and medals.
Hmm... either some partisans got several medals or they were given post-humously, as (depending on the sources some 80-120 partisans got back home.

Not always were the raids succesful. On 28th January 1942 a strenghtened company from the 181st Border-Guards Rifle Battalion went to a raid into the enemy rear. On eighth day the group was discovered and had to battle with a company of Finns whom supported 6 airplanes. The commander of the group estimated that the enemy lost 90 men killed and wounded. The group lost 25 killed and 36 wounded. Then the partisans tried to escape and for that the unit was split into several smaller groups. One of the group was ambushed by the Finns and it was almost completely destroied – 42 men were killed. The commander of this destroied group escaped, but was then shot at home.
This resembles the events described at Äänisen Rannoilla by N. Lappalainen:
Finns found out traces of two enemy units (ca. 100 and 50 men) near Tipinitsa village (Cape Onega) 30th Dec-42. Finns tracked down the units and made several ambushes (main one 6/7 Feb, killing one officer, four women and 45 men). Soviet total casualities at that operation were 95 KIA and 6 POW (one was a Finnish traitor who was later executed) Finnish casualities 1 KIA and 8 WIA
Also, when looking closer, it remains unclear whether the numbers which I gave before (449 raids, 7 780 dead enemies, 130 prisoners) describe only Karelian Front Border-Guards troop’s actions, or also the “partisans’s” deeds.
When relying on Finnish sources, the figures sound to be a bit high

Regards, Juha

P.S. Thanks Hanski for your posts and the link

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#10

Post by Reigo » 03 Jun 2003, 16:26

Hello Reigo, thanks for the information. Any more details of the places where the partisan group operated between 20th and 27th October 1941 ?
Unfortunately not.
Where´s Mergub?
I have also no idea.
The "problem" seems to be which units were "real" partisan units and which military recon units. Helge Seppälä wrotes at Neuvostopartisaanit that first partisan units were formed 8th July-41. By mid August there were 15 units with total 1771 partisans. The CCCKFSSR (Party) organised their HQ.
You may be right. To tell the thruth, the book which I referred, isn't very clear. Maybe the author is messing up something...

Also, when looking closer, it remains unclear whether the numbers which I gave before (449 raids, 7 780 dead enemies, 130 prisoners) describe only Karelian Front Border-Guards troop’s actions, or also the “partisans’s” deeds.

When relying on Finnish sources, the figures sound to be a bit high
Well, this is obvious that the "partisans" lied constantly.

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#11

Post by Bair » 05 Jun 2003, 07:31

Hi gentlemen,

I have just checked the book by Gen. Kupriyanov "Behind the lines of Karleian Front" and had to drop it. He very well describes all the difficulties of partisans in Karelia, but when it comes to their effectiveness.... It is a fairy-tale and pure propaganda, with no references to any archive sources or anything. It looks like either he or all the partisan units were lying to their superiors concerning their successes.

I can understand them very well - a groups of 50 - 100 men, who had to carry all their food, ammo, and weapons across swamps and forests, had very little chance of return if engaged in a serios fight with Finnish troops in the rear. They just would not be able to escape and successfully disengage from light Finnish troops. So it looks like all they did was sitting in the forest for several days, randomly attack civilian targets and then report great military successes.

I do not know, if I were a partisan - quite honestly, I would probably do the same. :( No one wanted to die. At home they were treated as heroes, and I guess sooner or later they started to believe it themselves.

With best regards,

Bair
http://www.mannerheim-line.com

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#12

Post by Klaus169 » 09 Dec 2006, 07:34

<< Reigo quoted the book V. Boiarski. Partizany i armia. Istoria uteriannyh vozmozhnostei. Minsk; Moskva, 2001. (Partisans and the army. History of lost opportunities) as follows:

“On 20th - 27th October 1941 904 men from the 101st Border-Guards Regiment (14th Army) made a raid in the Alakurtti area. The group consisted of two battalions, mortar company, MG company and some other sub-units. The leader was the commander of the 101st Rgt Colonel Zhukov. Being in enemy rear the group destroied over 200 enemy soldiers, 5 airplanes, 8 AA-guns. Also some warehouses were blown up. In November 952 men form the same unit made another raid to this area. The goal was to destroy the Alakurtti supply-station and liberate Soviet POWs there. Two Finnish battalions were crushed there, the enemy lost more than 300 killed, also 6 tanks, 13 mortars. The warehouses were destroied.”>>

Gentlemen:

Rather belatedly, I can offer a bit of first-hand information on this raid at Alarkurtti. In front of me is my father's 1941 pocket calendar which he kept as a soldier in a signals detachment of the 169th German Infantry Division. Under Friday, October 24, 1941, he noted: "Received N-Gerät at Alakurtti. Russian attack on Alakurtti (airfield), detected in time and fended off." At the time, his regiment was at or near Wojta, so he was visiting Alakurtti on that day to pick up new wireless equipment.

While my father had kept track of the casualties he had witnessed since Salla, he did not record any losses in connection with this unsuccessful assault at Alakurtti. On earlier occasions, he had recorded the deadly effectiveness of the Soviet artillery for which he had high respect. This leads me to conclude that the above-quoted claims are indeed exaggerated if not fictitious.

Klaus

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Juha Tompuri
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#13

Post by Juha Tompuri » 09 Dec 2006, 21:31

Hi Klaus,

Welcome to the Forum.
Nice and interesting piece of document you have :)
Klaus169 wrote: This leads me to conclude that the above-quoted claims are indeed exaggerated if not fictitious.
True.

Rerards, Juha

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#14

Post by Klaus169 » 10 Dec 2006, 06:17

Juha Tompuri wrote:Hi Klaus,

Welcome to the Forum.
Nice and interesting piece of document you have :)
Klaus169 wrote: This leads me to conclude that the above-quoted claims are indeed exaggerated if not fictitious.
True.

Rerards, Juha
Juha:

While the entry did collaborate that there was a Soviet attack on Alakurtti in October 1941, I found no reference to another raid in the following month. On May 5, 1942 there was a Soviet assault "in the left section" and on May 7 he noted that the enemy's artillery shot with phosphorous shells. In the first hour of Friday, May 8, he noted "500 Russians come marching from the Pitkävaara" which he translated as "Big Rock". Their attack was repulsed. On the following day, May 9, 1942 at 3:30, there was a raid on Alakurtti by low-flying Soviet aircraft. Fog was hanging low. Anti-aircraft shells at low altitude, log cabin was shaking lightly.

My father also took amateur 8mm pictures but unfortunately most of the film did not turn out. I have images of the Hotchkiss tanks advancing on Salla with the 169th German Infantry division but when he took pictures of action at the Kuolajoki crossing on the morning of Sunday, July 6, 1941, his film camera malfunctioned. Then there are film clips from a camp, the top of mountain range, the steam train near the front line, log cabins and a captured Soviet bunker. He was in Finland from June 10, 1941 until February 17, 1943 when he was shipped home after spending months in military hospitals..

Regards, Klaus.

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#15

Post by Juha Hujanen » 10 Dec 2006, 20:04

Klaus169 wrote: This leads me to conclude that the above-quoted claims are indeed exaggerated if not fictitious.

Klaus[/color]
It appears to so.

In Kansa Taisteli magazine 10/1960 there is an article of fight that looks like to be against Colonel Zhukov's unit.

The article is written by Viljo Vierimaa who was then acting commander of Finnish III/JR 54.The fight happens in late October 41 in area of airfield of Alakurtti.Vierimaa gets an order to destroy an enemy force that is heading to airfield.From POW information it is know that enemy is 999 men strong and led by Colonel Shukov.The force is made of border guard troops and its mission is free Soviet POW's located near airfield and destroy airfield.Vierimaa's force is infantry company +mg and mortar platoon.Other Finnish troops in area are few companies and Germans in airfield.

Vierimaa's force goes to area near airfield and collides to unknown unit in darkness of night.The other party starts heavy fire against Vierimaa's company but Finns hesitate to return fire because they fear that other party are Germans.Finally attacking men with "Uraa" shouts leave little question who they are.
Finnish fire with mg's and mortars stop the attack and Germans from airfield joins the battle.After 3-4 hours firefight Russians disengage and in the morning light Finns found 30-40 Russian dead on field.Finnish casualties are 1 KIA and c.10 WIA (apparently the KIA is private Eelis Yrjänäinen from 7./JR 54 who was KIA 28.10.41 in Alakurtti).

After that Vierimaa's company pursuits the Soviets and has another fight with it 4-5 km away.Soviets got away again.Some 30 km away Vierimaa's unit mets with German company led by Hauptman Bettr,who has been ambushed in Repovaara.Later Soviets are caught unaware while camping and broke down.

Cheers/Juha

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