Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

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Mangrove
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Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by Mangrove » 29 Sep 2011 14:22

Winter War
No 1. 1 December 1939. Finnish
No 7. 21 December 1939. Finnish
No 10. 24 December 1939. Finnish
No 17. 14 January 1940. Finnish
No 27. 20 February 1940. Finnish
No 34. 14 March 1940. Finnish

Continuation War
No 1. June 1941. Finnish
No 3. July 1941. Finnish & Swedish
No 7. 30 July 1941. Finnish
No 13, 3 September 1941. Finnish & Swedish
No 19, 1 October 1941. Finnish & Swedish
No 33, 6 December 1941. Finnish & Swedish
No 34, 7 December 1941. Finnish & Swedish and German
No 35, 7 December 1941. Finnish & Swedish
No 39, 24 December 1941. Finnish & Swedish
No 41, 31 December 1941. Finnish & Swedish
No 46, 21 January 1941. Finnish
No 48. 7 February 1941. Finnish
No 55. 16 April 1942. Finnish
No 56. 23 April 1942. Finnish
No 60. 10 May 1942. Finnish
No 117. 16 June 1944. Finnish
No 126. 7 August 1944. Finnish
No 128. 15 August 1944. Finnish
No 131. 7 September 1944. Finnish
No 132. 22 September 1944. Finnish

Travel to Karelian Isthmus on 16 - 18 September 1941
Travel to Rovaniemi on 1 - 3 April 1942
Travel to Käkisalmi on 4 - 5 September 1942
Travel to 14.D on 8 - 12 September 1942
Travel to Niinisalo and Tampere on 24 - 26 September 1942
Travel to Karelian Isthmus on 12 - 15 October 1942
Travel to Olonets Isthmus on 12 - 14 November 1942
Travels from Päämaja to Helsinki during 1942
Dinner with President on 4 June 1944

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CanKiwi2
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Mannerheim's Order of the Day - 1 Dec 1939 - translated

Post by CanKiwi2 » 29 Sep 2011 21:16

For the interest of those for whom Finnish does not come easily (myself included), I offer up a translation of Mannerheim's Order of the Day for 1 Dec 1939. Going to work my way thru these for practice and interest - please do correct my mistakes!!!!! Of which there will no doubt be a few :oops:

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Commander-in-Chief’s Order of the Day.

On 30 Nov 1939, the President of the Republic has appointed me Commander-in-Chief of the Finnish Defence Forces.

Finland’s gallant soldiers!

I turn to this task (hetkalla?) when the centuries-old enemy is once again attacking our country. Confidence in one’s commander is for success, the first condition. You know me, and I know you and I know that every one of you is ready to fulfill your obligations, even unto death. This war is nothing more than a continuation of our War of Independence and is (loppunaytos? the final act?).

We fight for our homes, our religion and the Fatherland.
ex Ngāti Tumatauenga ("Tribe of the Maori War God") aka the New Zealand Army

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by Vaeltaja » 29 Sep 2011 22:11

Good translation...

I would put it like...

Commander-in-Chief’s Order of the Day number 1.

On 30 Nov 1939, the President of the Republic has appointed me as Commander-in-Chief of the Finnish Defence Forces.

Valiant soldiers of Finland!

I take this task on the moment when our centuries-old enemy once again attacks our country. Confidence in one’s commander is the primary condition for success. You know me, and I know You and I know that every one of You is ready to fulfill your duties even unto the death. This war is nothing more than continuation and the final act of our War of Independence.

We fight for our homes, our religion and the Fatherland.


...though it still contains inaccuracies, including phrase 'vapaussota' (~ direct translation 'War of Freedom' or 'War of Liberty' the actual word being somewhat 'loaded' right wing term). Though in case when it refers to continued fighting against Soviets i suppose its use is understandable. Also how it is phrased it is directed both to all soldiers as well as to each individual soldier - the use of plural form is not only referring to soldiers as a group but is also a form of showing formal respect of sorts (ie. in 'grand' style) - i do not know how to reflect that in English.

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by Philip S. Walker » 29 Sep 2011 22:54

Good idea, this thread.

Here's my attempt at some small tweaks to make the previous two very fine versions sound perhaps a bit more natural in English.

Commander-in-Chief Order of the Day No 1.

On 30 Nov 1939, the President of the Republic has appointed me Commander-in-Chief of the Finnish Defence Forces.

Valiant soldiers of Finland!

I accept this task at a moment when our arch enemy is once again attacking our country. Confidence in an army commander is the primary condition for success in war. You know me and I know you, and I know that each one of you is prepared to fulfill his duty even unto death. This war is merely a continuation and final act of our War of Independence.

We fight for our homes, our religion and for our Motherland.


Comments:
1. No genitive 's' is needed in the first line.
2. In line 3 "I take this task" sounds both crude and arrogant in English and misses out on the solemn tone of the whole thing. "Accept this task" meets the demands somewhat better, but of course is less word-for-word correct.
3. Also in line 3 no "the" is needed before Commander-in-Chief.
4. In line 4 the comma should preferably be before the second "and" to separate meanings.
5. A few other small tweaks needed in line 4, "each" instead of "every", "his" instead of "your". Really just a question of trying to capture the elegance I believe that Mannerheim was known for.
6. In line 5 "nothing more than" again has a crude and dismissive sound in English (the English are extremely sensitive to such nuances), so I have replaced with the less abrasive "merely".
7. English people don't say "the Fatherland", unless they are making fun of the Germans. It is not a sympathetic term in English, in fact far from it. To English-speaking people their nation is a woman, perhaps because the country has had some noticeable queens and quite a few rather wimpy kings.

I believe that instead of "you" the English word "ye" (no capitalization) can be used, but it is very archaic. It would depend on how old-fashioned the equivalent term is in Finnish.

Since Mannerheim wrote in Swedish, perhaps we will get closer to the core of what he meant by translating from the Swedish versions where possible (unless they are in fact Swedish translations of the Finnish translations of his Swedish originals. Someone might know that.)

Hope this was of help to someone out there. I shall promise not to be so educational in future.

Finally, on a personal note, I was intrigued to see that the Winter War was a continuation war, as well. :)

Regards, Vely

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by CanKiwi2 » 30 Sep 2011 00:19

Thx Vaeltaja and Phil.

Philip S. Walker wrote: 2. In line 3 "I take this task" sounds both crude and arrogant in English and misses out on the solemn tone of the whole thing. "Accept this task" meets the demands somewhat better, but of course is less word-for-word correct.
Yes, you could use "accept this task" or "take up this task" - either would be more solemn and formal.

And I have to confess, I wasn't striving for elegance so much as an accurate translation but the comment makes sense.
Philip S. Walker wrote: 6. In line 5 "nothing more than" again has a crude and dismissive sound in English (the English are extremely sensitive to such nuances), so I have replaced with the less abrasive "merely".


Yes, "merely" would be more formal and nuanced. Good choice.
Philip S. Walker wrote:7. English people don't say "the Fatherland", unless they are making fun of the Germans. It is not a sympathetic term in English, in fact far from it. To English-speaking people their nation is a woman, perhaps because the country has had some noticeable queens and quite a few rather wimpy kings.
Hmmmm. I'd agree that Motherland is more sympathetic sounding to English ears but I think in this case "fatherland" would still be more accurate. It still has to reflect the original Finnish context overall, and "Motherland" just doesn't sound right when talking about Finland given that just about every other test refers to the Fatherland.
Philip S. Walker wrote: Finally, on a personal note, I was intrigued to see that the Winter War was a continuation war, as well. :)
Well, if you think about it, the War of Independance and the Heimosodat was less than 20 years before - don't know about you, but 20 years aho now seems pretty recent to me :lol:

.........Nigel
ex Ngāti Tumatauenga ("Tribe of the Maori War God") aka the New Zealand Army

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by Mangrove » 30 Sep 2011 05:33

Philip S. Walker wrote: Since Mannerheim wrote in Swedish, perhaps we will get closer to the core of what he meant by translating from the Swedish versions where possible (unless they are in fact Swedish translations of the Finnish translations of his Swedish originals. Someone might know that.)
Here is the sketch of the 1st Order of the Day, text in Finnish but corrections in Swedish.

http://www.mannerheim-museo.fi/mm.php?page=paivakaskyt
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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by Philip S. Walker » 30 Sep 2011 10:26

What is the explanation for the bi-lingual draft? Did someone write it first as a suggestion in Finnish, and then Mannerhim changed it around in the language he was most comfortable with?

There actually seems to be more corrections than original text.

I wonder if there was any criticism of the ODD at the time. The reference to the Civil War seems to fly in the face of the then-current attempts to keep the Finnish nation united.

Regards, Vely

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by CanKiwi2 » 30 Sep 2011 10:53

Philip S. Walker wrote:What is the explanation for the bi-lingual draft? Did someone write it first as a suggestion in Finnish, and then Mannerhim changed it around in the language he was most comfortable with?
Everything I've read indicates Mannerheim spoke Swedish as his 1st language and was far more comfortable in Swedish or Russian than speaking or writing Finnish. Having worked in an office preparing documentation for Cabinet Ministers myself for a couple of years after I finished University (back in the days before word processing software and PC's..... we actually had typists who worked from our hand-written drafts....), what I would assume is that someone drafted up the Order of the Day, it was then typed up and Mannerheim reviewed and changed it (happened to me every time.....)
Philip S. Walker wrote:There actually seems to be more corrections than original text.
In my experience, that's what happens.....
Philip S. Walker wrote:I wonder if there was any criticism of the ODD at the time. The reference to the Civil War seems to fly in the face of the then-current attempts to keep the Finnish nation united.
I would highly doubt there was any criticism whatsoever given that the USSR had just attacked. And as a note, the actual translation is the "War for Liberty" or "War of Independence," not the Civil War. The whole thrust through the 1920s and 1930s was to downplay the Civil War aspects of 1918 and play it up as a War of Independence from the Russians, "the loathsome slimy tentacles of the Russian cuttlefish" was Somersalo's way of putting it, who were using the Reds as pawns - or at least, that's the way I interpreted what I was reading when I was going thru all this for my What If.

As an aside, could we just keep this thread strictly for the Order of the Days and such, and translations into English thereof along with commentaries on the translations. It's great material for us non-Finns that Martti posted that we don't see in any of the English-language books and I personally would really like to concentrate on that aspect of it. We can easily discuss the meaning and reaction to the docs themselves in the many other threads that are ongoing - I'd hate to see this one sidetracked.

Cheers..............Nigel
ex Ngāti Tumatauenga ("Tribe of the Maori War God") aka the New Zealand Army

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by John Hilly » 30 Sep 2011 13:54

"Kuten muidenkin päiväkäskyjen kohdalla, avustajat laativat hänen antamiensa ohjeiden mukaan luonnoksen, jota hän sitten muokkasi painaen päiväkäskyyn oman persoonallisen kädenjälkensä."

"As with all other OODs, assistants prepared a draft according to his instructions, which he then edited pressing his own personal printmark to then [published] OOD."
Unfortunately, the Mannerheim Museum - link provided earlier by Martti K. - doens't give any details who the assistants in question were.


After the Winter War the main "drafter" was General Tuompo.

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Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by John Hilly » 30 Sep 2011 17:56

CanKiwi2 wrote:As an aside, could we just keep this thread strictly for the Order of the Days and such, and translations into English thereof along with commentaries on the translations. It's great material for us non-Finns that Martti posted that we don't see in any of the English-language books and I personally would really like to concentrate on that aspect of it. We can easily discuss the meaning and reaction to the docs themselves in the many other threads that are ongoing - I'd hate to see this one sidetracked.
I fully agree, but couldn't help myself in trying to solve, how this OOB was written, considering the day OOB issued - on the first day of the war.
Let's not go into that too deeply.

Regards
Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by John Hilly » 30 Sep 2011 18:16

"Ryhdyn tähän tehtävään" is a bit old fashioned language typical at the time.
Best translation, taking the time when published could be:"I am taking this task...". Ryhtyä being a synonym to start with a work of e.g. to sow ground etc...!

Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Mannerheim's Order of the Day #7 21-Dec-1939

Post by CanKiwi2 » 30 Sep 2011 18:59

OK, with this one I will probably embarrass myself. Struggled to track down some of the words, let alone translate them so some of this is a shot in the dark (but I'll do it anyhow). Finnish in italics, my attempt at translating in English - and I look forward to finding out where I screwed up.

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Commander-in-Chief’s Order of the Day No #7 21 Dec 1939

Jouluna, rauhan juhlana, lahetan tervehdykseni kaikille eri rintamilla sankarilli sesti taisteleville joukoillemme, joidoen voimakkaan suojan takana tanakin kohtalokkaana hetkena kansallemme on joulurauha turvattu. / On Christmas, the feast of peace, I send my greetings to all our troops fighting heroically on the many different fronts, giving thanks for their strong protection at this fateful time so that our nation can experience a secure Christmas.

Ajatuksemme pyrkivat naina juhlapaivina koteihimme ja omaistemme luo, mutta nykyhetken suomen sotilaan on lujitettava mielensa ja kohotettava henkensa kestamaan sen taistelun, minka kohtalo on meidan suoritettavaksemme maarannyt. / Our thoughts are with our homes and our families on this holiday, but for the present we Finnish soldiers need to remain strong and to steel our minds and spirits to endure the struggle, which it is our destiny not to fail.

Ellemme sita kay voittoon saakka, ei meilla kenellakaan ole oleva kotia enempaa kuin isanmaatakaan, ei vapautta enempaa kuin joulurauhaakaan. / If you do not win, we will no longer have our homes or our native country, neither will we have the freedom to enjoy the Peace of Christmas.
.
Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, Field Marshal Mannerheim
Headquarters of the General Staff
Lieutenant General K L Oesch
ex Ngāti Tumatauenga ("Tribe of the Maori War God") aka the New Zealand Army

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Re: Mannerheim's Orders of the Day and Travels

Post by Anne G, » 30 Sep 2011 19:23

Vaeltaja wrote: This war is nothing more than continuation and the final act of our War of Independence.
There Mannerheim made a blunder, for this could have seen regarded to the sons of the former Reds. Luckily just after this came the declaration of Terijoki government...

In a way Mannerheim was a prophet for as the central myth of the nation the War of Independence (the Civil War) was replaced by the Winter War (myth is here used as religions scientist do: "a true story about the sacred beginning times").

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Re: Mannerheim's Order of the Day #7 21-Dec-1939

Post by Anne G, » 30 Sep 2011 19:35

CanKiwi2 wrote: Ellemme sita kay voittoon saakka, ei meilla kenellakaan ole oleva kotia enempaa kuin isanmaatakaan, ei vapautta enempaa kuin joulurauhaakaan.[/i] / If you do not win, we will no longer have our homes or our native country, neither will we have the freedom to enjoy the Peace of Christmas.
I would say the beginnning: "If we shall not carry on it (i.e. the war) until the victory, neither of us shall have home no more than home country, freedom no more than peace of Christimas."

What Mannerheim meant by victory was certainly different thann it was undesrtood by many Finns. Some seems to have very wild ideas (see only newspapers), but at least it was believed that Karelia could be kept (with maybe some minor concessions).

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Re: Mannerheim's Order of the Day #7 21-Dec-1939

Post by Vaeltaja » 30 Sep 2011 19:38

Again, to be honest, surprisingly good translation.

Commander-in-Chief’s Order of the Day No #7 21 Dec 1939

On Christmas, the celebration of peace, i send my greetings to all our troops fighting heroically on the different fronts, whose stalwart guard secures Christmas Peace to our nation even on this fateful moment (these fateful times).

Our thoughts are with our homes and our families on this holiday but present day's Finnish soldier must steel his mind and raise his spirit to endure the struggle that the fate has set on us. (has placed as our task)

Unless we shall triumph none of us shall have no home nor Fatherland, no freedom nor Christmas Peace.


Christmas Peace being old tradition still kept alive (at least in Finland). Declarations from Turku (LINK) have been broadcast in radio since 1935 (and in TV since 1983) with actual event in one form or another dating back to 14th century. In old times it meant that any crimes committed during it would be punished to the fullest extent of the law without leniency.
There Mannerheim made a blunder, for this could have seen regarded to the sons of the former Reds. Luckily just after this came the declaration of Terijoki government...
Quote from my earlier post... (slightly edited) 'vapaussota' ~ direct translation 'War of Freedom' or 'War of Liberty', the actual word is somewhat 'loaded' right wing term. Granted am not certain if the term was 'right wing' term in the interbellum or did it came bad only after the war. When the truth... um... evil things could no longer be spoken of expansionistic... er... peace-loving Soviet Union. :roll:

And yes, Terijoki governments declaration helped a lot here.

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