Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

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Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Juha Tompuri » 23 Feb 2013 20:45

Splitted from http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=196989

/Juha

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yura-vn wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote:What T-27?
T-27 this is Soviet sub-tank based on Carden-Loyd Mk.IV. About 100 of this sub-tanks took part in Winter war. From May 1941 not used as battle equipment. Uses as training tank and artillery tractor.
Thanks guys,

What I wondered, was...
"Bericht über russische Kampfwagen auf Grund einer Besichtigung erbeutener Kampfwagen in Hämenlinna, Finnland (T-27, Komsomoletz, T-26, OT-26, OT-130, OT-133, T-28)" composed in 1940 or 1941.
... that I don't remember reading of any T-27 tanks captured by Finns.

Regards, Juha

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by JTV » 24 Feb 2013 11:12

Juha Tompuri wrote: ] ... that I don't remember reading of any T-27 tanks captured by Finns.
None of the Finnish books mention captured T-27. Anyway, my archive finds contain document sent by (Antitank) Gun Company of 5th Brigade (Tyk.K / 5. Prikaati) of in 21st of December 1940. In this document the particular unit ordered track bolts for winter track shoes of T-27 type towing tractor and set of four 700 x 16 size rubber tires for BA-27 armored car.

According markings the order went through HQ of 5th Brigade to Tampere Car Depot (Tampereen Autovarikko) and from there it ended to Armour Centre Repair Shop (Panssarikeskuskorjaamo) in Varkaus.

Did Komsomolets A20 use similar tank tracks as T-27? Could also be case of mistaken identity or this unit had been issued with older captured armoured vehicles containing at least one T-27?

Jarkko

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Juha Tompuri » 26 Feb 2013 18:01

A German origin educational board from year 1936 from Finnish Reserve Officer School archives / my collection:
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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by John Hilly » 26 Feb 2013 18:33

Finland bought one Vickers-Carden-Loyd VI in 1933 and it remained at use till 1941.
So if the tracks were the same, Panssarikeskuskorjaamo well might have spare parts.
And another maybe... it was lost before being written to history?

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J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Juha Tompuri » 27 Feb 2013 20:50

Bingo!

A photo from Finnish war booty exhibition, February 1940:
http://www.uusisuomi.fi/artikkelit/mott ... suhallissa (scroll the photo collection)
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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Juha Tompuri » 28 Feb 2013 21:32

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Slon-76 » 28 Feb 2013 22:06

Hi!

Probably this machine from 44 Division. I wrote on this forum about the t-27 losses, but I can't find where.

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Juha Tompuri » 28 Feb 2013 22:29

Slon-76 wrote:Hi!

Probably this machine from 44 Division.
Quite possibly. as AFAIK much of the stuff at the exhibition came from Suomussalmi region.
Slon-76 wrote:I wrote on this forum about the t-27 losses, but I can't find where.
Perhaps here:
Slon wrote:25-th, 146-th, 305-th rifle regiments 44-th division - On six T-27 (not T-37) in everyone
The destiny is unknown
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... t#p1375163

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Esa Muikku » 28 Feb 2013 23:35

There were three War Booty Exhibions in Helsinki. The photos in the link above are collected from each exhibition. The photo with a T-27 is not from the Winter War exhibition. Also, no T-27s were captured during the Winter War. However, in the beginning of the Continuation War a few were destroyed and three captured in Värtsilä.

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Juha Tompuri » 01 Mar 2013 07:46

Esa Muikku wrote:There were three War Booty Exhibions in Helsinki. The photos in the link above are collected from each exhibition.
Yes, I knew about the different exhibitions.
Esa Muikku wrote:The photo with a T-27 is not from the Winter War exhibition. Also, no T-27s were captured during the Winter War.
I have tried to figure out how the exhibition items were placed at each exhibition, and I thought that that photo was from the Winter War era one.

The whole "search" originated from the Pekka Kantakoski book mentioned sources:
Juha wrote:This one sounds interesting (even seemingly based on Finnish tests):
"Bericht über russische Kampfwagen auf Grund einer Besichtigung erbeutener Kampfwagen in Hämenlinna, Finnland (T-27, Komsomoletz, T-26, OT-26, OT-130, OT-133, T-28)" composed in 1940 or 1941.

What T-27?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9#p1772497
Esa Muikku wrote:However, in the beginning of the Continuation War a few were destroyed and three captured in Värtsilä.
I knew the Värtsilä ones, but captured and captured , as weren't they so badly burnt (by retreating Soviet forces ?), that none of them could have been the vehicle at the exhibition?
At Ala-Kurtti(?) one was captured by Germans/Finns?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5427&hilit
Were there more?

Regards, Juha

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edit: Kantakoski mentions at page 496 at his book about a "kääpiö Wickers" (midget Vickers) vehicle that was captured during 1941 and sent to be repaired, but scrapped later.
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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Slon-76 » 01 Mar 2013 08:35

Staff of the 44th Division reported a loss in the region Suomussalmi 10 t-27

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Juha Tompuri » 01 Mar 2013 11:04

Slon-76 wrote:Staff of the 44th Division reported a loss in the region Suomussalmi 10 t-27
Thanks, do you know what was their fate?
Were they destroyed or "just" left behind and/or recovered later by Soviet troops?


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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Slon-76 » 01 Mar 2013 21:42

Most left during the retreat.

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Esa Muikku » 01 Mar 2013 23:10

Heh! That is the Vickers-Carden-Loyd Mk VI* and not a T-27! (Evidence can be found in some details and other photos.)

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Re: Soviet T-27 tankette captured during the Winter War?

Post by Juha Tompuri » 01 Mar 2013 23:48

Esa Muikku wrote:Heh! That is the Vickers-Carden-Loyd Mk VI* and not a T-27! (Evidence can be found in some details and other photos.)
Even more strange.
Do you mean the "towing ring" at the photo as one evidence ?

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