Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

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juhamart
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Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 19 Apr 2013 11:28

Greetings,

I am currently designing a war game on the Soviet offensive on Karelian Isthmus ni the summer 1944. This far I have been collating Soviet OOB from various Finnish sources on campaign, but I was wondering is there any comprehensive list for this already available somewhere. I am interested on both unit designations (I believe I have gotten most of these already, but would love to cross-check) and their strength (or in case of armored formations, their equipment) in the beginning of the campaign. I'd need information on divisional level on infantry divisions, but on greater detail on artillery and armored brigades/regiments and assault gun regiments.

I am also currently missing completely Soviet Air Force's OOB and possible separate (non-divisional) artillery units for the campaign, on which information would be direly needed.

juhamart
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 19 Apr 2013 13:16

Ok, after searching this forum a bit found http://tashv.nm.ru/ where I can get unit designations crosschecked with artillery OOB. Now any information on quality and quantity of equipment and shape of the formations would be needed. Will post bit later crosschecked OOB.

Mangrove
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by Mangrove » 19 Apr 2013 13:38

juhamart wrote:This far I have been collating Soviet OOB from various Finnish sources on campaign, but I was wondering is there any comprehensive list for this already available somewhere.
For starters, have you consulted these Finnish sources?

Manninen's article on Sotahistoriallinen aikakauskirja 13/1994 and his book "Miten Suomi valloitetaan"
Nikunen & Talvitie & Keskinen's book "Suomen ilmasodan pikkujättiläinen"
Raunio & Kilin's book "Sodan taisteluja"

juhamart
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 19 Apr 2013 13:49

Not gone through these yet, many thanks, will order them immediately from my library.

Art
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by Art » 19 Apr 2013 16:20

You narrow down your question a bit: what units exactly, what date? I believe, I can help with some part.

Vaeltaja
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by Vaeltaja » 19 Apr 2013 16:59

http://www.soldat.ru/files/f/000008b8.pdf <- worth reading if you can bother to translate it.

1 June 1944 - p. 156 & 1 July 1944 - p. 185

It should be noted that in addition to the troops slated to the armies some of the units belonging to front instead of armies also took part to the fighting.

juhamart
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 19 Apr 2013 17:12

Thank you Vaeltaja. Information seems to be same as in http://tashv.nm.ru/ . I have translated it from there and will put it here as soon as I have some time. Hopefully Art can after that do some magic tricks and give some more info about the units in question.

juhamart
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 19 Apr 2013 19:40

Ok, if anyone can help with equipment of these armored formations I'd be grateful (there are some with t26 and some with is122, so difference is huge, just would have to find out who had what). Marked to parenthesis, if something is known about equipment.

1 Guards Tank Brigade (described as extremely strong)
30 Guards Tank Brigade
152 Tank Brigade
220 Tank Brigade (mentioned as weak)
26 Guards Breakthrough Tank Regiment
27 Guards Heavy Breakthrough Tank Regiment
27 Separate Tank Regiment (is-122, kv-1)
31 Guards Breakthrough Tank Regiment
46 Guards Breakthrough Tank Regiment
98 Tank Regiment
124 Tank Regiment (t34)
185 Tank Regiment
226 Tank Regiment
260 Guards Breakthrough Tank Regiment (kv-1)
351 Guards Heavy Self-Propelled Gun Regiment
394 Heavy Self-Propelled Gun Regiment
396 Self-Propelled Gun Regiment (su-152)
397 Self-Propelled Gun Regiment (su-152)
938 Self-Propelled Gun Regiment
952 Self-Propelled Gun Regiment
1222 Self-Propelled Gun Regiment (su-152)
1238 Self-Propelled Gun Regiment
1326 Self-Propelled Gun Regiment
1439 Self-Propelled Gun Regiment

Also strenght of Soviet aviation regiments is puzzling me. Any information about their strenghts available somewhere?

EDIT: and the date was early June 1944 till mid-July 1944.

olia
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by olia » 19 Apr 2013 20:47

Aviation of the Baltic Fleet participated in the battles on the Karelian Isthmus in the summer of 1944:
3 Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment, 4 Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment - La-5F and La-5 FN,LaGg-3 (12 aircrafts in 3 GFAR)
12 ,13,21 Fighter Aviation Regiments - Yak-7B and Yak-9
7 Guards Ground Attack Aviation Regiment, 35 Ground Attack Aviation Regiment - IL-2
12 Guards Bomber Regiment - Pe-2
1 Guards mine- torpedo Regiment, 51 mine-torpedo regiment - A-20G "Boston" and IL-4 (very little)
15 Reconnaissance Regiment - Yak7B, Yak-9D and Pe-2
According to the staff at each regiment 40 aircrafts. 3 Squadrons x12 aircrafts and the management unit (4 aircrafts)

juhamart
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 20 Apr 2013 10:06

Thank you. This is well in line with Finnish studies (linked article by Manninen). Would love to know if the air units involved in the campaign were at full strenght in the beginning or if some were depleted (thank for the info on 3GFAR! This kind of information really helps).

juhamart
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 20 Apr 2013 10:39

In addition to Baltic Fleet's air forces, other air units involved were (to my knowledge):

13th Air army:
- 14th, 29th Guards Fighter Aviation regiment (Yak-9), 159th (La-5), 191st and 196th (Aircobra) Fighter Aviation regiments
- 34th Guards Bomber Aviation Regiment, 58th and 140th Bomber Aviation Regiment (Pe-2)
- 15th Guards Ground Attack Aviation Regiment, 566th, 943rd, 999th Ground Attack Aviation Regiment (IL-2)
- 448th, 703rd, 872nd Ground Attack Aviation Regiment (IL-2)
- 13th Separate Reconnassaince Aviation Regiment (Pe-2, Yak-7b)
- 283rd Separate Fighter Aviation Regiment (Yak-7b)

2nd Guards Fighter Aviation Corps (Aircobra, Yak-9, la-5):
- 11th, 26th, 27th, 102nd, 103rd Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment, 401st, 402nd, 403rd, 404 Fighter Aviation Regiment

Reserves from Stavka:
- 815th, 836th, 855th Long Range Bomber Aviation Regiment (Il-4)
- 12th, 132nd Bomber Aviation Regiment (Tu-2)
- 47th Long Range Reconassaince Aviation Regiment (Pe-2, Il-4)

Mikko H.
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by Mikko H. » 20 Apr 2013 10:53

Have you checked Suomen ilmavoimat vol VI by Keskinen & Stenman, especially pages 68-69?

juhamart
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 20 Apr 2013 10:54

Thank you, Mikko. Haven't got that yet on my hands, but currently waiting it to appear in my library.

juhamart
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by juhamart » 20 Apr 2013 11:07

According to Manninen 13th air army and 2nd Guards Fighter Aviation corps fighters numbered in 268, which makes ca. 18 fighters per regiment that seems quite low. Ground attack regiments seemed to have 28-29 planes per regiment and Bomber regiments 31 planes. This of course relies on Manninen having correct numbers.

Should be able to cross-check these from Suomen ilmavoimat vol VI by monday, but ofcourse any input here is appreciated.

Mikko H.
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Re: Russian OOB during 1944 Offensive on Karelian Isthmus

Post by Mikko H. » 20 Apr 2013 11:08

PM me your e-mail and I'll send you photos of the relevant pages. The files are too big to upload here.

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