Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

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VARYAG-2
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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#31

Post by VARYAG-2 » 11 Jan 2014, 16:11

Hi everybody!
I am the commander of the searching team "Varyag-2", registered in St. Petersburg. In summer 2007 me and my comrades from searching team "Nameless" found place, where crashed fighter La-5, shot down 26.06.1944. It's pilot, jr. leutenant Tashlykov Nikolai Vasilyevich (рус. Ташлыков Николай Васильевич), born in 1922, was killed with the plane. Place of the crash is located on the southern coastal edge of Lake Smirnovskoe (former Repolanjärvi, close to Lyykylänjärvi). Remains of Nikolai Vasilyevich were buried at the memorial on 4-th kilometer of Leningrad highway near Viborg on 08 September 2007.
Tashlykov was the wingman pilot of Serov Vladimir Georgievich, killed in the same air battle. Two others fighters La-5 from quaternary, led by Serov, managed to come back.
As I understand, most likely that Tashlykov was shot by Puhakka? Please, can somebody tell, which fighter units were involved in air battle near Tali? Can be there JG 54? And that plane was shot by Serov? At least three official sources tells that Serov shot down a fighter. It is interesting, because near Tali was found wreck of the FW-190, unfortunately, without serial numbers, that can help identify it. Can somebody tell, is there were losses from JG 54 (or LeLv 24 or LeLv34) on 26.06.1944?
If it is interesting, I am adding some photos from La-5 recovery, and also a link to a book, in which I tells about that work: http://okopka.ru/k/krasilxnikow_r_w/pamyatzemli.shtml
With respect, Roman.
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VARYAG-2
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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#32

Post by VARYAG-2 » 11 Jan 2014, 16:15

Here some more photos.
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VARYAG-2
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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#33

Post by VARYAG-2 » 11 Jan 2014, 16:17

And a few more.
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Mikko H.
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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#34

Post by Mikko H. » 11 Jan 2014, 19:54

Finnish Air Force lost one aircraft to enemy action on 26 June 1944. This was Bf 109G number MT-434 of HLeLv 34 shot down by a Yak-9 around Kääntymä-Tali. The victorious Soviet pilot was possibly Capt I.M. Dubovik of 159 IAP. The Finnish pilot, Lt Nils Trontti, was taken POW.

Sources: Kesäsota by Atso Haapanen and Suomen Ilmavoimat - Finnish Air Force vol VI by Kalevi Keskinen & Kari Stenman.

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#35

Post by VARYAG-2 » 12 Jan 2014, 00:17

Mikko H., thank You for answer!
By сomparing times of the flights, it's most likely that Nils Trontti was shot down by Sklyarenko Ivan Grigoryevich from 14 GIAP... I know that Nils is the only one Finnish pilot, who didn't returned from action on 26 june. About losses 24 and 34 LeLv I meant, may be some planes were badly wounded or crashed on landing, or pilot saved with a parashute - something like that...
About losses of 54 JG I found such information (source - http://www.sci.fi/~fta/havllv26.htm):

"...26.6. 1944 Sää10/10 1000 m .
Talin suurtaistelun vastatoimenpiteet.
Saksalaiskonevahvuus Immolassa aamulla:
23 kpl JU-87, 16 kpl FW-190, 4 FW-190 Jabo sekä 3 kpl Me-109 tiedustelu/vlokuvauskonetta.
Portinnokan suunnan 35 vihollispanssaria tuhottu melkein kokonaan. Saksalaiset tuhosivat eri puolella 23 vaunua. Vihollinen työnnettiin takaisin vaikka VKT linjaan ei päästy.
Stukat ja Jabot tehokkaita. Oman panssaritorjunnan kauhut ja nyrkit tekivät selvän lopuista.
Rintamalinja oikealla Saimaan kanava-Isoniitty-Kuninkaanmäki-Suokkaanjoki-Kärstilänjärvi. Keskellä Konkkalavuoret-Murokallio-Mustasaari joka siirtyi kaakkoon Aniskala-Kuusela-Nurmilampi. Vasemmalla rintamalinja Pahkavuori-Kalliosuo-Repolanjärvi.
Luutn Bruun määrätty 1.lentueen päälliköksi Teromaan jälkeen..
Kello 13.00 Teromaa BW-370:llä Käkisalmesta Immolaan.
Kello 14.20 torjuntalento neljällä BW:llä Kiviniemi.
Tulossa 8 pommikonetta ja 3 hävittäjää jotka kuitenkin häipyivät.
Saksalaiset menettivät päivän aikana 1 JU-87 ja 2 FW-190. 4 kuollutta.".

As I understand, 2 FW-190 were lost with pilots KIA? May be somebody knows, where they crashed? Can be one ot them shot down by Serov?
Also interesting, that German pilots claimed 26 june 3 shot down La-5 - 2 by Heinz Wernicke, and 1 - by Josef Quarda. Although Soviet air force lost in action on Kannas on 26 june only 2 La-5 - with pilots Serov and Tashlykov. Another one La-5 was crashed on landing on airfield Boboshino (pilot Golovachev survived)...
Thanks in advance for your answers!

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#36

Post by Juha Tompuri » 12 Jan 2014, 00:29

Hi Roman

...and most welcome to the Forum.
By сomparing times of the flights, it's most likely that Nils Trontti was shot down by Sklyarenko Ivan Grigoryevich from 14 GIAP
Have you read this about the Trontti case??
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=199794

Regards, Juha

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#37

Post by VARYAG-2 » 12 Jan 2014, 01:15

Juha, thanks for greeting!

Have you read this about the Trontti case??
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=199794

No, I havent... Also thank for link!
With respect to You, Roman.

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peeved
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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#38

Post by peeved » 13 Jan 2014, 22:07

VARYAG-2 wrote:By сomparing times of the flights, it's most likely that Nils Trontti was shot down by Sklyarenko Ivan Grigoryevich from 14 GIAP... I know that Nils is the only one Finnish pilot, who didn't returned from action on 26 june. About losses 24 and 34 LeLv I meant, may be some planes were badly wounded or crashed on landing, or pilot saved with a parashute - something like that...
Beside Trontti's MT-434 the only major FAF loss for that day I'm aware of is the observer of BL-197, 2nd lieutenant Östenson, who was mortally wounded by an enemy fighter above Tali station [Kohtalokkaat lennot 1939-1944 by Jaakko Hyvönen].
VARYAG-2 wrote:About losses of 54 JG I found such information (source - http://www.sci.fi/~fta/havllv26.htm):
...
As I understand, 2 FW-190 were lost with pilots KIA? May be somebody knows, where they crashed? Can be one ot them shot down by Serov?
The FW 190 loss figures are probably due to some misunderstanding. According to Lento-Osasto Kuhlmey by Hannu Valtonen Geschwader Kuhlmey lost only one aircraft on 26.6.1944: Ju 87 D-5 code S7+DB of 1./SG 3 (WNr. 132541) 5 km SE from Hannila after 1545 hours; Crew parachuted to safety, radio operator/gunner Uffz. Franz Esser lightly wounded.

Markus

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#39

Post by peeved » 14 Jan 2014, 21:47

26.6.44
HLeLv 24 Flight 1 http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=5274085 & Flight 2 war diaries http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4592914 ; No losses. (HLeLv 24 unit war diary for the date or Flight 3 diary not yet digitised. http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?ne ... olaivue+24 )

HLeLv 34 war diary: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3747102 & http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3747103 MT-434 MIA; Two BF 109s damaged in somersault landings: MT-444 returning from an interception mission between 1140 and 1255 hours and MT-430 at 1645 hours.

Markus

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#40

Post by peeved » 15 Jan 2014, 13:30

Same Finnish & German losses also mentioned in FAF HQ report for the day http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4893486 & http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4893487 xcept for the MT-430 which probably means a lack of serious damage to that a/c.

Markus

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#41

Post by VARYAG-2 » 16 Jan 2014, 22:23

Markus, thanks a lot for the information!
Interesting details! So, totally, what is Your opinion? Who participated in air battle with Serov quaternion? Only Finnish pilots, or German fighters too?
With respect to You, Roman.

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#42

Post by peeved » 16 Jan 2014, 23:19

Hi Roman,

Dunno, IMO at least HLeLv 24 & 34 were definitely involved in a major furball which on the Soviet side included not only La-5s like Serov's flight but at least Airacobras and Il-2s as per Katajainen and Puhakka's claim reports earlier in this thread (According to Juutilainen also Mustangs [maybe in fact Yak-9s]), but can't rule out II/JG 54 which conducted seven escort and interception missions to Tali and Kääntymä regions claiming four a/c shot down as mentioned in the FAF HQ report. Don't have access to Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey combat reports for the day so can't be sure of German involvement but haven't yet seen evidence on a Finn damaging Golovachev's plane heavily enough to cause its write-off either.

Facts that speak for a Russo-Finnish air combat in the mauling of Serov's flight OTOH are the plane types involved: La-5s vs. BF 109s since 1./NAGr. 5's BFs were conducting reconnaissance missions in pairs and probably wouldn't have risked losing recce data and FW 190s are hard to confuse with Messerschmitts. Also Katajainen & Puhakka didn't to my knowledge mention an involvement of Luftwaffe aircraft and their La-5 claims closely match the Russian losses of Serov & Tashlykov.

Regards,
Markus

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#43

Post by peeved » 18 Jan 2014, 01:03

Possible correlation with Golovachev in the command post war diary of Flying Regiment 3 at http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=2915058
"12.05-13.15 interception mission 4 aircraft
Weather 600-700 m.

2nd lieutenant Lampi Lake Ihantala
North from the crossroads 1 AC
Fire seen on the ground.
Also damaged LA-5 by Tali.

2 MT on alert (24)"

Lampi's AC kill claim apparently wasn't confirmed nor have I seen a damaged La-5 credit for the day. Katajainen's La-5 claim not entered in the diary. However useful info about the composition of the Katajainen & Puhakka flights, parts of which probably made contact with Serov's flight: Six BF 109s from HLeLv 24 & eight from 34.

Markus

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#44

Post by VARYAG-2 » 20 Jan 2014, 23:45

Markus, my greetings!
From soviet side I have such information.

There some documents from Central Archive of Ministry of Defense (photos were made by Ilya Gennadievich Prokofyev).
First, operational report of 13 Air Army (13 VA) on 23.00 26.06.1944. (sorry, quality is low, but photo is taken from copy).
On 26.06. for combat missions flew out 188 planes, whey made 263 flights.

277 SHAD (remark - armed with Il-2) flew for ground attacks on centers of resistance in the Vakkila – Yliveden – Ihantala. During flights conducted two air battles with groups of 6-8 fighters, shot down 3 Me-109. Losses – 1 Il-2, shot down by flak, 1 Il-2 shot down by fighters (remark - group of 566 SHAP included 8 Il-2. 1 Il-2 was shot near Portinhoikka, crew killed, 1 Il-2 made a forced landing near lake Näykkijärvi, crew (pilot – future Hero of the Soviet Union Nikolai Nikitovich Stepanov) survived).

281 SHAD (remark - armed with Il-2) flew for ground attacks of transportation and armored vehicles in the (can not parse) Jüksia (?didn’t find on map). Conducted air battle with 2 Me-109. 1 Il-2 after air battle crashed on landing, crew survived.

275 IAD (remark - armed with Airacobras, Jak-7, Jak-9, La-5, Kittyhawks) covered the battlefield around Repola, Tali, Kääntymä. During day conducted 11 air battles, as a result shot down 7 planes – 5 Me-109, 2 Ju-87. Losses – 2 La-5 did not return from a mission, 1 Jak-9 after air battle made a forced landing on soviet territory.

13 ORAP - pairs of fighters conducted reconnaissance of enemy troops in tactical and operational outback to lines Immolanjärvi, Lappeenranta. There was no encounters with the enemy, no losses.

276 BAD - 1 Pe-2 flew for reconnaissance of rail transportation in area of Simola, Kouvola. Target missed due to bad weather conditions.

2 GLIAK covered the battlefield, flew to intercept scouts. There was no encounters with the enemy, no losses.

Second document - operational report of 2 GIALK on 20.00 26.06.1944.

…2. 11 GIAP - combat strength 27 La-5. In a period 17.18 – 18.35 8 fighters flew fronting for bombers in the area of the railway station Tali. There was no encounters with the enemy.

Third document - operational report of 275 IAD on 22.00 26.06.1944.

Units of the 275 IAD supported the offensive of 21 and 23 Army near station Tali and north-west from Vyborg. Followed Il-2 in area Tienhaara, Säkkijärvi, Koppila.
191 IAP finished relocation on airfield Heinjoki.
29 GIAP started relocation from airfield Siworizy (near Gatchina).

Made 132 combat sorties… On confirmation by crews of Il-2 shot down 7 planes: 6 Me-109 and 1 Ju-87. Losses: after air battle didn’t returned 2 La-5 of 159 IAP – sr. lt. Serov and jr. lt. Tashlykov.

…3. 14 GIALKP made 90 flights…
In period 07.25 – 08.31 4 Jak-9 (leading gu. lt. Glasunov) conducted air battle with 2 Me-109, tried to attack Il-2. Attacks were repulsed.

In period 07.34 – 08.46 6 Jak-9 (leading gu. sr. lt. Sklyarenko) conducted air battle with 2 Me-109 and 2 FW-190 north-west from Vyborg. Battle ended with no result.

In period 11.28 – 12.20 2 Jak-9 (leading gu. jr. lt. Geraschenko) covered the battlefield around Juustila and conducted air battle with 2 Me-109 on H=300 m. Battle ended with no result.

In period 11.37 – 12.34 4 Jak-9 (leading gu. sr. lt. Sklyarenko) covered the battlefield around Juustila and conducted air battle with 4 Me-109 on H=100-150 m. In group was shot down 1 Me-109, crashed near Juustila.

In period 12.09 – 13.09 6 Jak-9 (leading lt. Glasunov) covered the battlefield around station Karisalmi and conducted air battle with 6 Me-109 and 2 FW-190 on H=300-400 m. Battle ended with no result.

In period 13.09 – 14.17 6 Jak-9 (leading gu. maj. Dubovik) covered the battlefield and conducted air battle near Rennikka with Me-109 and 2 FW-190 on H=1100 m. Gu. maj. Dubovik shot down 1 Me-109, that crashed into a forest north-east from Rennikka. Gu. jr. lt. Sboev shot down 1 Me-109, that crashed burning near Marjamäki.

In period 15.28 – 16.25 5 Jak-9 (leading gu. sr. lt. Lisharenko) covered the battlefield around Tali and conducted air battle with 12 Ju-87 and 8 Me-109 on H=2000 m. In group was shot down 1 Ju-87, crashed near Tali.

In period 17.50 – 18.42 6 Jak-9 (leading gu. sr. lt. Sklyarenko) covered the battlefield around Tali - Rennikka and conducted air battle with 8 Me-109 on H=4000-2000 m. Gu. lt. Gerashchenko shot down 1 Me-109, that crashed near Rennikka with strong explosion. During air battle Jak-9 of gu. lt. Gerashchenko was damaged, pilot made a forced landing 1 km north Leipäsuo and was wounded.

In period 19.00 – 20.25 6 (?) Jak-9 (leading gu. maj. Dubovik) covered the battlefield around Tervajoki and conducted air battle with 4 Me-109 on H=3000 m. Battle ended with no result.

In period 19.00 – 20.25 group of fighters (remark - most likely Jak-9) conducted air battle with 8 Me-109 on H=1700 m around Juustila. In group was shot down 1 Me-109, crashed near Tikkala. During air battle plane of gu. sr. lt. Lisharenko was damaged, pilot made successful landing on basing airfield.

In period 14.44 – 15.25 during accompanying 9 Il-2 in area Alanoskua, Il-2 strongly stretched the distance between planes (to 2- 3 km), so there were no ability to cover them all.

4. 29 GIAP from airfield Siworizy did not produced combat missions.

5. 159 IAP made 42 flights from airfield Jäppilä…

In period 14.10 – 15.05 4 La-5 (leading sr. lt. Serov) covered the battlefield around station Tali and conducted air battle with 8 Me-109 on H=600-700 m. sr. lt. Serov shot down 1 Me-109, crashed near station Tali. Conducting air battle didn’t returned from combat mission sr. lt. Serov and jr. lt. Tashlykov. La-5 of jr. lt. Golovachev was damaged, pilot made a fuselage landing on it’s airfield. Plane cannot be repaired, pilot escaped with bruises.

In period 18.30 – 19.40 6 La-5 (leading lt. Grechka)…

6. 191 IAP made 27 noncombat flights. Regiment rebased on airfield Heinjoki. Ready to conduct combat work by 18 crews.

7. 196 IAP did not conduct combat work…


Additionally, here information about human losses in the flight units for 26.06.1944 (source - http://obd-memorial.ru/):

196 IAP 275 IAD (armed with «Airacobras») – no losses.

29 GIAP 275 IAD (armed with Jak-7, Jak-9) lost Chalik Vasiliy Fedorovich (Чалик Василий Федорович), born in 1922. 26.06.1944 29 GIAP was relocating from Siworizy.

159 IAP 275 IAD (armed with La-5) lost Serov Vladimir Georgievich (Серов Владимир Георгиевич), born in 1922 and Tashlykov Nikolai Vasilyevich (Ташлыков Николай Васильевич), born in 1922.

191 IAP 275 IAD (armed with «Kittyhawks») - no losses.

14 GIAP 275 IAD (armed with Jak-7, Jak-9) - no losses.

15 GSHAP 277 SHAD (armed with Il-2) - no losses.

566 SHAP 277 SHAD (armed with Il-2) lost crew of Il-2, shot near Portinhoikka - pilot Elkov Timofey Andreevich (Елков Тимофей Андреевич), born in 1914 and aerial gunner Glebov Grigoriy Ivanovich (Глебов Григорий Иванович), born in 1924.

943 SHAP 277 SHAD (armed with Il-2) - no losses.

999 SHAP 277 SHAD (armed with Il-2) - fought in Estonia, lost aerial gunner Homyakov Viktor Grigoryevich (Хомяков Виктор Григорьевич), born in 1921.

448 SHAP 281 SHAD (armed with Il-2) - no losses.

703 SHAP 281 SHAD (armed with Il-2) - no losses.

872 SHAP 281 SHAD (armed with Il-2) lost crew of Il-2, shot in Karelia – pilot Yukov Viktor Nikolaevich (Юков Виктор Николаевич), born in 1921 and aerial gunner Zaycev Yuri Aleksandrovich (Зайцев Юрий Александрович), born in 1926.

3 GIAP 1 GIAD VMF (armed with La-5) - no losses.

4 GIAP 1 GIAD VMF (armed with La-5) - no losses.

10 GIAP 1 GIAD VMF (armed with Jak-7) - no losses.

12 IAP 9 GSHAD VMF (armed with Jak-1, Jak-7, Jak-9) lost near Bolshie Kortschany (Volosovo district) Cherkasskiy Grigoriy Pavlovich (Черкасский Григорий Павлович), born in 1923.

7 GPSHAP 9 GSHAD VMF (armed with Il-2) - no losses.

35 SHAP 9 GSHAD VMF (armed with Il-2) - no losses.

11 GIAP 2 GIALK PVO (armed with La-5) - no losses.

26 GIAP 2 GIALK PVO (armed with «Hurricane», «Spitfire» Jak-9) - no losses.

102 GIAP 2 GIALK PVO (armed with «Airacobras») – no losses.

27 GIAP 2 GIALK PVO (armed with Jak-9) - no losses.

103 GIAP 2 GIALK PVO (armed with «Airacobras») – no losses.

401 IAP 2 GIALK PVO – no losses.

403 IAP (armed with «Airacobras») – no losses.

404 IAP (armed with Jak-9) - no losses.

410 IAP (armed with La-5) - no losses.

8 GSHAP VVS KBF (armed with Il-2) – lost near island Pitkameets aerial gunner Molchanov Vladimir Vasilyevich (Молчанов Владимир Васильевич), born in 1926.

P.S. I've highlighted in bold the information that, on my opinion, relate to the air battle with Serov.

With respect to You, Roman.
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13 VA 2.jpg
2 GIALK.jpg

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Re: Kapt Olli Puhakka's claim 26.06.1944

#45

Post by VARYAG-2 » 20 Jan 2014, 23:49

Here documents of 275 IAD to the previous post.
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275 IAD 1.jpg
275 IAD 2.jpg
275 IAD 3.jpg

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