Lt. Trontti

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Lt. Trontti

Post by Juha Tompuri » 15 Jun 2013 20:42

Interesting "sidetrack" from here:
peeved wrote:According to the war diary of 3rd Flight/HLeLv 34 http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4594952 the interception mission where Lt. Trontti went POW was from 1050 to 1200 hours so his loss was probably unrelated to the Serov flight.

Markus
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1796711

Trontti was shot down, become a POW, and was tried to convert to a spy.
He agreed, and was sent back to Finland, but he right away revealed to Finnish officials what had happened.


Serov was claimed to have rammed Trontti plane: http://books.google.fi/books?id=k9DQ1zH ... ov&f=false

Stalin’s Falcons by Polak/Shores. According to this book:

"On 26 June 1944 he was engaged with seven Bf109Gs of the Finnish Air Force’s LeLv34. He was reported to have shot down two, and then rammed a third. This was MT-434, flown by Lt Nils R. Trontti, a seven victory ‘ace’; Trontti baled out successfully and was taken prisoner, but Serov was killed. These final successes brought the total of claims for him to 49 (at least 12 shared)."
My father Carl-Erik Bruun told the following: When Trontti came back to Finland, he took contact with him and told the situation, that the Sovjets had demanded him to become a spy. He asked Carl-Erik: What to do? It was decided that Trontti was to send false information about finnish activity.
After the war Trontti told Carl-Erik that once a black car drove beside Trontti when he walked along a street in Helsinki. In the car was the Sovjet officer (?) that had demanded him to become a spy. He had shouted to Trontti that they knew where he lived! After that episode he did not hear of the Sovjets.
This is how I remember the sory from my father. I will check my father´s papers and see if there is more about this.
Göran
http://www.network54.com/Forum/46825/me ... 3774/Serov

Image http://www.cieldegloire.com/000_trontti.php
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Last edited by Juha Tompuri on 15 Jun 2013 21:07, edited 2 times in total.
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John Hilly
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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by John Hilly » 16 Jun 2013 13:55

Sorry that I have not the book at hand, but in Pekuri's book there's a mention that Pekuri and "some young leutenant" were in the same prison in Leningrad, and "this leutinant couldt not held his courage but agreed to be returned to Finland for giving information to the Soviets."
Because of this, he never got his credibility back, and his career was over in FAF.

With best,
J-P :(
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by Juha Tompuri » 16 Jun 2013 20:37

John Hilly wrote:Sorry that I have not the book at hand, but in Pekuri's book there's a mention that Pekuri and "some young leutenant" were in the same prison in Leningrad, and "this leutinant couldt not held his courage but agreed to be returned to Finland for giving information to the Soviets."
Because of this, he never got his credibility back, and his career was over in FAF.
The fooling the Soviet side while being a POW and sending disinformation after being back Finland so severe "mistakes"?

Regards, Juha

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John Hilly
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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by John Hilly » 16 Jun 2013 22:27

Yes according to this:

Spalernajan sotavanki
Pekuri, Lauri
Julkaisuvuosi: 1993
Kustantaja: Porvoo ; Helsinki ; Juva : WSOY, 1993.
ISBN: 951-0-19062-4

With best,
J-P :?
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by wit61owl » 03 Jul 2013 15:31

Hi everybody
Trontti was not rammed by Serov. On one of Russian sites I've found info that shoot down of his aircraft was claimed by Gu. Lt Sklyarenko Ivan Grigoryevich ( гвардии лейтенант Скляренко Иван Григорьевич) from 14 Gu. IAP flying Yak-9. Accord. to Mikhail Bykov's book: Pobiedy Stalinskih Sokolov he claimed a Me-109 over Juustila at that date, however I'm not sure whether it has any relation to Kannas, place given officially.
All the best

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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by John Hilly » 04 Jul 2013 11:06

wit61owl wrote:Accord. to Mikhail Bykov's book: Pobiedy Stalinskih Sokolov he claimed a Me-109 over Juustila at that date, however I'm not sure whether it has any relation to Kannas, place given officially.
Juustila was a very important crossing point over the Saimaa Channel, and at least in military thinking part of the Kannas Battles!
Thanks for your post!

with best,
J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by peeved » 04 Jul 2013 14:14

Juustila is a bit to the west from but still in the general area where the HLeLv 34 interception mission to Tali-Lyykylä was directed; c.f. http://gamma.nic.fi/~wirmaila/muutsuvut ... kartta.jpg The plane types also match since W/O Paronen claimed a Yak-9 according to the war diary at http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4594952

Markus

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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by Juha Tompuri » 04 Jul 2013 19:24

wit61owl wrote:Trontti was not rammed by Serov.
Yes, in Finland he has been reported as being shot down, not rammed.

Regards, Juha

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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by peeved » 04 Jul 2013 21:51

From HLeLv war diary 26.6.1944 at 1050 to 1200 hours http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3747103
4 MT interception mission Kääntymä-Tali. Air combat with 10 Il-2 and 10 Yak-9. W/O Puronen shot down 1 Yak-9.
Lt. Trontti has not returned from mission. Last seen at 1115-1120 hours at Juustila canal. MT-434. Fate unknown. (According to later information taken prisoner and managed to escape to own side.)
Markus

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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by wit61owl » 05 Jul 2013 05:39

Hi everybody
It seems that one more WW2 mystery was solved. It was last confirmed aerial kill claimed by Gu. Lt Sklyarenko. He was KIA on 16 July 1944, but I don't know the circumstances of his last combat.
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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by Juha Tompuri » 05 Jul 2013 06:51

wit61owl wrote:It seems that one more WW2 mystery was solved.
Kalevi Keskinen and Kari Stenman at book Suomen Ilmavoimat 1944 (Finnish AF 1944) write that it was apparently Capt I.M. Dubovik from 159 IAP who shot down Trontti.
However no kill time mentioned there (except of course the date).
peeved wrote:
4 MT interception mission Kääntymä-Tali. Air combat with 10 Il-2 and 10 Yak-9. W/O Paronen shot down 1 Yak-9.
Lt. Trontti has not returned from mission. Last seen at 1115-1120 hours at Juustila canal. MT-434. Fate unknown. (According to later information taken prisoner and managed to escape to own side.)
Yes, seems that only one of the four Messerschmitt pilots saw what happened and told it afterwards.

Regards, Juha
Last edited by Juha Tompuri on 05 Jul 2013 06:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by wit61owl » 05 Jul 2013 08:46

Yes it's possible. Accord. Bykov capt. Dubovik Ivan Mikhailovitch (капитан Дубовик Иван Михайлович) claimed 1 Me-109 NW Rainikka. It is not clear whether he flew wit 159 IAP or 14 Gu. IAP at that date. At least durin his VVS war career he flew both.
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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by olia » 08 Jul 2013 07:04

If interesting:
Ivan Grigoryevich Sklyarenko-gu.leytenant, commander of aviazveno of 14 gv.iap 275 IAD 13 VA Len front. Born in 1920 in the Nykolaev region, Ukraine. In 1940 volunteered for the Red Army, he graduated from the Voroshilovgrad Pilots school ( Lugansk ,Ukraine).
Since May 1942 the pilot-scout in 14 gu.iap, flying the Yak-9T
Participated in:
breaking the blockade of Leningrad ( January 1943, awarded the Order of the Red Banner)
Mga and Sinyavino offensives (June-October 1943, the Order of the Patriotic War 1st degree)
Narva operation (March 1944, the second Order of the Red Banner).

1.06 - 16.07. 1944 on the Karelian Isthmus made 64 combat flights : 36 - escort bombers and attack aircraft, 14- support ground troops. Had 20 air combats, shot down 2 aircrafts.
6/26/1944 led a group 6 Yak-9 to cover the battlefield northeast of Vyborg, came into the fight with Me-109 group and knocked down 1 aircraft, which fell in Juustila area
On the same day, led a group 6 Yak-9 to cover the battlefield in Pattelya and Tali station, attacked a group of 10 Me-109. As a result of the battle, the enemy lost 2 aircrafts, soviet group did not have a loss.
16/7/1944 supporting soviet troops in the area Vuhalmi-Metsola Skliarenko group met with the 12 Yu-87, 8 FW-190 and 4 ME-109 . Faced with the FW-190, parachute jumped, injured (concussion and right leg injury). Captured. Untill 11/30/1944, in captivity.
After his release, returned to 14.gv.iap. In May 1945, was awarded the Order of the Red Star for the battles on the Karelian Isthmus.
Total during GPW made 275 combat flights, had 51 air combats, shot down 7 planes (6 fighters and 1 bomber )
In 1985 awarded the second Order of the Patriotic War 1 degree as a war veteran.
Last edited by olia on 08 Jul 2013 08:19, edited 1 time in total.

olia
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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by olia » 08 Jul 2013 07:57

Dubovik Ivan Mihailovich(born 1917 Saratov Region) - Deputy Commander 14 gu.iap, gu.mayor.
6/26/1944 led a group 6 Yak-9 to cover the battlefield in Syaonkyarvi-Hannila. Met with 8 Me-109, shot down one plane that crashed near Maryamyaki.
Was awarded the Order of the Patriotic War 2 degree for battles in Karelian Isthmus

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Re: Lt. Trontti

Post by tramonte » 18 May 2018 13:23

peeved wrote:Juustila is a bit to the west from but still in the general area where the HLeLv 34 interception mission to Tali-Lyykylä was directed; c.f. http://gamma.nic.fi/~wirmaila/muutsuvut ... kartta.jpg The plane types also match since W/O Paronen claimed a Yak-9 according to the war diary at http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4594952

Markus

However there is no Paronen on official claim list of that day. Here are the names, claims and place in 26 June 1944:

10.30–11.05 Tali-Tammisuo Kers Eero Halonen MT-449 2 x Il-2
10.30–11.10 Lyykylänjärvi Ylik Tapio Järvi MT-450 2 x Il-2
10.30–11.10 Lyykylänjärvi Luutn Aulis Lumme MT-206 Il-2
10.55–12.10 Tali Ylik Aimo Vahvelainen MT-238 Mustang
10.55–12.20 Tammisuo Luutn Väinö Suhonen MT-244 La-5

12.55–14.00 Juustila-Tali Ltm Ilmari Juutilainen MT-422 Airacobra
12.55–14.00 Juustila-Tali Ltm Ilmari Juutilainen MT-422 Il-2 ja Mustang
12.55–14.15 Lyykylänjärvi Kapt Olli Puhakka MT-427 La-5
12.55–14.15 Juustila Vääp Onni Paronen MT-448 Il-2
12.55–14.15 Kärstilänjärvi Luutn H. Salomies MT-432 Il-2

12.45–13.45 Juustila ja Tali Luutn Jorma Saarinen MT-450 2 x Il-2
13.05–14.20 Vakkila-Mannikkala Vääp Nils Katajainen MT-436 2 x Il-2
13.05–14.20 Lyykylänjärvi Vääp Nils Katajainen MT-436 La-5
14.45–15.45 Viipuri-Tali Kapt Hans Wind MT-439 3 x Jak-9
14.50–15.50 Tali Luutn Olavi Puro MT-454 La-5
16.25–17.45 Tali Kapt Hans Wind MT-439 2 x Jak-9
16.30–17.40 Mannikkala Kers Kosti Keskinummi MT-443 Mustang

I never stop wondering why they were claiming Mustang while there's no evidence neither 13. Air Army, VPO nor VVS KBF using that type of aircraft.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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