Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Topspeed » 25 Jul 2013 09:57

Juha Tompuri wrote: Could it even be possible for the "sergeant on the hill" even theoretically to witness the claimed event?
Regards, Juha
This sergeant was in bad shape in 1991 already and know for sure that the 13 years later happened chat with mr Isopahkala is true since his son is a representative in popular woodhouse firm. The older Isopahkala was in a hip joint operation in OYKS around 2004 and died few years ago. His hipjoint got infected and had to replaced but since he got in bad shape he was 6 months near death situation since he had been inflicted with tuberkulosis as a child and it sorta popped up at old age.
The sergeant was from Kuusamo/Kajaani region and came to OYKS to be fixed with artificial arteries. I think his relatives might remember his story if a newspaper article on the local newspaper about this event could be reproduced asking help to locate his whereabouts or relative to back up the story. I called the hospital trying to find him to get verification in 2008 but seems that there was a problem in when old hand typed records had been switched to digitalized form...and since I wasn't 100% of his name anymore they couldn't give me all patient records of the hospital on that period to check ( it is illegal ). They did confirm that kinda plastic vains had been replaced in the hospital at that time. I was in the hospital in 1991 for finger surgery and in 2004 for injection to the lower back disc problem. I requested his data for the address or phone number but Marttila or Martikainen as I remembered his name wasn't to be find...possibly due to lost patient records in the digitizing process. Also the doctors in hospitalas don't really have time to research this kinda events even if they wanted to.

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Topspeed » 25 Jul 2013 10:40

Only thing about this anymore that can be verified 100% is the fact that I also called the author of the Karhilas book about the incident and he he said; " Great..did you mention to Kyösti Karhila about ?" I said him I called first !

My interest about asking the infantry veterans about their FAF sighting based purely on my back ground as an army brat....at that time I was still in charge of the 1/12 scaled R/C air combat hobby.

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Topspeed » 25 Jul 2013 12:59

Juha Tompuri wrote: Could it even be possible for the "sergeant on the hill" even theoretically to witness the claimed event?
150 miles is possible for high flying plane; http://www.spacebanter.com/showthread.php?t=132201

olia
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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by olia » 28 Jul 2013 21:23

281 ShAD, 448 ShAP : lt V.A. Gusakov KIA, jefr S.F. Lavrishko KIA, Il-2 c/n 303812, shot down by A-A, crashed 2 km S Lappeenranta.
What is A-A ?

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by CF Geust » 29 Jul 2013 04:17

A-A = anti-aircraft artillery (or machine gun), German FLAK, Russian PVO.

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Topspeed » 29 Jul 2013 07:13

I cannot remember if this ryhmä ( platoon ? ) was equipped with binoculars since they were on a look out ? I may have asked about it, but cannot remember. Was it common ?

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Mangrove » 30 Jul 2013 18:33

Karhila's original after action report (T 19284/122) tell us that Karhila engaged three of the six IL-2s flying at the the treetop level south of Lappeenranta and towards Tienhaara. The right landing gear on the first one came down, the second plane lost its right horisontal stabiliser and the third one was hit on the root of the left wing. After running out of ammunition, he disengaged the planes at Hovinmaa.
1. Pvm. 2.7.44 klo 19.50 - 20.
2. Taistelupaikka (-alue) ja korkeus: Lappeenranta-Tienhaara, 10 m.
3. Onko tuhottu vaiko vaurioitettu (konetyyppi ja lukumäärä): Vaurioitettu 3 IL-2:ta.
4. Tuhotun viholliskoneen putoamispaikka (-alue) tai selvitys siitä, missä kunnossa vaurioitettu kone nähty viimeksi ja missä: Kts. kertomusta alla!
5. Lyhyt kuvaus taistelun kulusta (tarpeen vaatiessa piirros kääntöpuolelle):

Suojauslennolle mennessämme sain radiolla käskyn tulla kentän päälle, missä ryssiä. E(n) saanut koneisiin kosketusta, olivat meidän yläpuolellamme. Samalla sain ????? jälleen kentälle nyt pintoihin(?). Siellä olikin IL:ä kovasti, pääsin 6:n koneen perään, tulitin niistä kolmea, yhdestä tuli oikea laskuteline ulos, toisesta meni oikeanpuoleinen korkeusperäsin hajalle ja kolmannesta läksi suuria kappaleita vasemman tason tyvestä. Panokseni loppuivat ja jouduin jättämään koneet Hovinmaan kohdalla.

6. Tapauksen todistajat (omat lausunnot jos mahdollista):
7. Huomautuksia (Taktillisia tai muita havaintoja, omat vauriot j.n.e.): Oma it (20 mm) tulitti minua kovasti kotiinpäin tullessani jossain Yksperän tienoilla saamatta osumaan, vaikka etäisyyttä oli vain 100 m!

Oma kone, tyyppi ja No: MT-461
Luut. Kyösti Karhila
Finnish troops collected the remains of at least four different IL-2s during the month of July (T 14290/Mappi 1). The remains were found from Hovinmaa, Suur-Merijoki, Juustila, Lappee and Immola, i.e. near Lappeenranta and Viipuri.
CF Geust wrote: ml.lt V.V. Semyshkin KIA, jefr F.R. Iljnitskiy KIA, Il-2 c/n 10485, shot down in air combat, crashed 15 km S Lappeenranta.
May this be the crew of the plane that crashed near the supply office of the 17th Division, creating a 200 meter long ditch into the forest near Kotijärvenliete? Apparently Iljnitskiy survived the crash itself, but perished ½ hours later. - Os.3/17.DE, Tsto II/17.DE.

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Topspeed » 31 Jul 2013 10:43

Wonder what made him claim 5/6 in his book and how come an eye witness on the ground saw 6/6 come down ? :oops:

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Hanski » 06 Nov 2013 21:10

Lieutenant Kyösti "Kössi" Karhila in the cockpit of a Messerschmitt Bf-109 G-6, photographed at Lappeenranta "scoring 28 air victories by 9 July 1944, a candidate for Mannerheim Cross". However, the proposal of awarding him the Cross was not successful. SA-Kuva # 157395.
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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Juha Tompuri » 06 Nov 2013 21:25

Topspeed wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote: Could it even be possible for the "sergeant on the hill" even theoretically to witness the claimed event?
150 miles is possible for high flying plane; http://www.spacebanter.com/showthread.php?t=132201
...and for verifying single engine planes flying low to hit the ground?

Regards, Juha

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Topspeed » 07 Nov 2013 11:49

See page one 80 km + 80 km !

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by John Hilly » 07 Nov 2013 18:11

Good shot of "Kössi" Karhula.
He was propably the only ace preferring the 20 mm guns under wings.
His tactics was to use flaps to reduce speed and attack close using guns acheiving enough fire power to kill Stormoviks.

With best,
J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Topspeed » 07 Nov 2013 18:47

It was helluva lot more sophisticated than that if the infantry sergeant and Kössi is to believe !

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Juha Tompuri » 07 Nov 2013 19:48

Topspeed wrote:See page one 80 km + 80 km !
I think that's where the story reality fails the most.

Regards, Juha

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Re: Kössi Karhilas 5 Il-2 victories on July 2nd 1944 !

Post by Topspeed » 07 Nov 2013 22:14

Juha Tompuri wrote:
Topspeed wrote:See page one 80 km + 80 km !
I think that's where the story reality fails the most.

Regards, Juha

I really have no idea how far they saw..I say it is possible to see if the hill was 100 m above the surroundings...and they had binoculars. If the shooting took 2 minutes and started while the planes were still coming at them then the distance cannot have been very long..going 400 km/h tops..maybe 350 more likely. It would have travelled only 12 km the whole convoy.

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