The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

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Slon-76
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The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

Post by Slon-76 » 16 Jan 2015 08:49

This is my article published in the journal "Clio" in the past year. Sorry, the article is in Russian. But there are many tables available and without translation.

Part 1 http://slon-76.livejournal.com/96573.html The first part is about the historiography of the question.
Part 2 http://slon-76.livejournal.com/97022.html
Part 3 http://slon-76.livejournal.com/97434.html 2 and 3 parts of the losses 163 division and separate parts 47th corp 30.11.39-31.12.39.
part 4 http://slon-76.livejournal.com/97558.html 4 part - losses 44 division and 3 regiment NKVD 15.12.39 - 10.01.40

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John Hilly
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Re: The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

Post by John Hilly » 20 Jan 2015 17:09

Thanks for sharing this Slon!
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

mirekw
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Re: The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

Post by mirekw » 30 Jan 2015 19:30

Very interesting material, I wonder, why Soviet commanders had made such high underestimate own losses in this battles?

The differences between official/report's losses (commander's statistics) and real, true losses are too high to be hidden in such documents. New soldiers could not fulfill and hide the real huge losses.

The Soviet's losses are of course much less severe then Finnish had claimed anyway, they are too much high as for such 2 strong units strong supported by tanks, guns, etc.

Regards,
mirekw

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

Post by Juha Tompuri » 07 Mar 2016 22:20

Photos taken in January 1940 and March 2016.
I-15bis?

Regards, Juha
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Slon-76
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Re: The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

Post by Slon-76 » 11 Mar 2016 20:43

Most likely, I-15bis No. 4452 (st.lnt N. Surikov). 30.12.39 flew to the search detachment of Tchaikovsky and was missing.

Or I-15bis No. 4377 (lnt A.I. Vasilev) 15.12.39 did not return from combat mission in area Suomussalmi

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

Post by Juha Tompuri » 11 Mar 2016 21:18

Thanks.

Russian and Ukrainian monuments for the fallen at the Raate road:
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tramonte
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Re: The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

Post by tramonte » 14 Sep 2020 14:15

Slon-76 wrote:
16 Jan 2015 08:49
This is my article published in the journal "Clio" in the past year. Sorry, the article is in Russian. But there are many tables available and without translation.

Part 1 http://slon-76.livejournal.com/96573.html The first part is about the historiography of the question.
Part 2 http://slon-76.livejournal.com/97022.html
Part 3 http://slon-76.livejournal.com/97434.html 2 and 3 parts of the losses 163 division and separate parts 47th corp 30.11.39-31.12.39.
part 4 http://slon-76.livejournal.com/97558.html 4 part - losses 44 division and 3 regiment NKVD 15.12.39 - 10.01.40
Did i understand right it that according these primary source documents losses of 163.Division in Suomussalmi in December 1939 were:

-KIA: 537
- WIA 964
- MIA 208
- frostbitten 229
----------------
total 1938

And with that other numbers losses (with separate units of 47th Corps) higher but still missing in action showing: 208.

Now there seems to be some conflict at least with MIA figures because Finns said they captured in Suomussalmi village and around it (note: nothing to do with Raate) "some 300" Soviet soldiers. However i don't know did they capture 30 Nov -20 Dec 39 and how many of them were actually soldiers of units of 47th Corps....
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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Slon-76
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Re: The losses of the Red Army in the battle of Suomussalmi.

Post by Slon-76 » 15 Sep 2020 11:49

tramonte wrote:
14 Sep 2020 14:15

Did i understand right it that according these primary source documents losses of 163.Division in Suomussalmi in December 1939 were:

-KIA: 537
- WIA 964
- MIA 208
- frostbitten 229
----------------
total 1938
No, this is data for the period 30.11.39-25.12.39.

163.D 30.11.39-15.01.40 - 349 WIA + >258 WIA 47th Corps

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