Russian weapon in Finnish Army

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igor_verh
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Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by igor_verh » 28 Jan 2016 19:22

Hello, I have a some questions about russian weapons, which were used in Finnish Army during Continuation War.
It is well known, that finnish soldiers during Winter War and at 1941 captured many kinds of Soviet weapons, all of it obtained special index m, and almost always soldiers gived nicknames for every kind of weapon. For example, MG DP-27 called "Emma", tank T-34 - "Sotka".
Can somebody write a full list of russian weapon (not only small arms) with index m, nickname and history, how it appeared?
How many Tokarev (SVT) and Simonov (AVS) rifles were captured?
Are there any data about american and english weapon in Finnish Army, for example, colt 1911, Tompson smg, Lewis mg etc?
And did I understood right, that "Lotta Svärd" and "Ukko-Pekka" different types of Mosin-Nagant rifle?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Skarpskytten » 28 Jan 2016 20:00

You want to visit this page, igor_verh: http://jaegerplatoon.net/MAIN.html. I think it will answer most of your questions.

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Karelia
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Karelia » 28 Jan 2016 22:47

Ukko-Pekka indeed was a Mosin-Nagant version.

Lotta Svärd however was the World's largest female volunteer (unarmed) defence organization.

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JTV
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by JTV » 29 Jan 2016 06:59

As noted, my website have most of the used nicknames. There were that not that many for captured Soviet small arms:
- 7.62 mm Nagant revolver m/1895: "Nagani", "Nagantti" etc depending from which dialect area the soldier(s) happened to be.
- 7.62 mm pistol TT-30 & TT-33: "Tähtipistooli" ("Star-pistol"), named after star-marking in the grip panels.
- 762 mm Mosin-Nagant rifle m/91-30: "Rengastähtäinkivääri" ("Rifle with ring in the sight"), named after front sight design.
- 7.62 mm Degtjarev light machinegun m/27 (DP): "Emma", named after popular waltz (presumably due to rotating magazine on top of the weapon resembling record-player).

As far as I know there were no nicknames for the captured submachine guns and since Maxim machinegun was common already in Finnish starting year 1918, there was no specific nickname for the Russian/Soviet version.

Tanks:
- T-50: "Pikku sotka" ("Small sotka") , named that way because it looked like a smaller version of T-34.
- T-34: "Sotka" ("Pochard"), as far as known named after steam-boat with that name.
- T-34/85: "Pitkäputkinen sotka" ("Sotka with long gun barrel").

Artillery weapons:
- 50-mm mortar: "Naku" ("Knock"), presumably named that way due to how ineffective its mortar shells were compared to those of larger caliber mortars.
- 45-mm antitank-gun: "Piiskatykki" ("Whip-gun"), named after the sound made by its (supersonic) shells resembling crack of a whip.
- 76 K/36 light field gun (F-22): "Rotanhäntä" ("Rats tail"), presumably named after its long narrow gun barrel.

"Ukko-Pekka" was nickname Finnish Mosin-Nagant rifle m/39 - named after former Finnish President Pern Evind Svinhufvud, who was also rather famous marksman and was commonly known as "Ukko-Pekka" ("Old Man Pekka"). All Finnish Mosin-Nagant rifles (m/27, m/28, m/28-30 and m/39) which had front sight with protective upwards pointing brackets that protected front sight post were commonly referred as "Pystykorva" ("Finnish spitz"), name which originates from local dog breed that has upwards pointing ears. Civil Guard rifles m/28 and m/28-30 could also be referred as "Suojeluskunnan pystykorva" ("Civil Guard spitz") to separate them from Army rifles. "Lotta-rifle" was Mosin-Nagant infantry rifle m/24 (basically infantry rifle m/1891 with new thicker rifle barrel and slightly improved sights) and named that way because Lotta-Svärd (women's volunteer auxiliary organization for Civil Guard / Finnish Military) gathered much of the financing used for acquiring the particular rifle model.

Very few Thompson or Lewis were captured during World War 2. There is basically no info about Lewis machineguns captured during World War 2 - if any were captured their number must have been really small. Few dozen Lewis had been captured in 1918 (year 1921 Finnish inventory had 60 of them, but these may include some weapons acquired with aircraft) - these included both 7.62 x 54R and .303 caliber versions.

The total number of captured Thompson submachine guns was also only few dozen - total number was reported as 47 weapons in end of year 1944, which may include 2 Thompsons acquired by Civil Guard for testing in 1920's. Lewis-machineguns were used as anti-aircraft machineguns during World War 2, but Thompsons did not see any use with Finnish military.

What is know practically all Colt 1911 were captured in 1918 and what is known their total number could not have been that large, maybe 200 - 300 at most, knowing exact number is not possible, since Finnish soldiers usually considered captured pistols to be their private property and took them home as "war souvenirs". Total number of Colt-pistols in .45 ACP were reported as 121 pistols in year 1951 - but these must have included also some privately purchased Colt 1911 & 1911A1, whose owners had deceased while serving in Finnish Army during World War 2, with their privately owned pistols ending up to inventory of Finnish military.

You can find more info in my website. Feel free to ask if you have additional questions.

Jarkko

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Mangrove » 29 Jan 2016 08:02

JTV wrote: Very few Thompson or Lewis were captured during World War 2. There is basically no info about Lewis machineguns captured during World War 2 - if any were captured their number must have been really small.
SA-Kuva a_162, taken in Kajaani on 8 December 1939 (or earlier): "English light machine-guns captured from the Russkies".

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Juha Tompuri » 29 Jan 2016 08:33

Something from the past:
Captured Thompson SMGs

Tank T-28 was called in Finland as Postivaunu (postal wagon) (possibly also as Postijuna = postal train) because during early Winter War one T-28 destroyed was found containing captured Finnish postal bags.
KV-tanks were in general called in Finland as Klimi

Regards, Juha

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igor_verh
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by igor_verh » 30 Jan 2016 14:58

Thanks for the answers, gentlemen!
And what abour soviet aviation - did russian, american and english aircrafts, which were used on Karelian front, have an intresting nicknames?
Karelia wrote:Ukko-Pekka indeed was a Mosin-Nagant version.

Lotta Svärd however was the World's largest female volunteer (unarmed) defence organization.
Yes, mistake from russian source, which I read earlier. Rifles called "Lottakivaari".

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Mangrove » 31 Jan 2016 09:53

Names used sometimes on the official Finnish documents:

T-26 = "Vickers/Wickers" after the Vickers 6-Ton.
BT = "Christie" after J.W. Christie

A-20 = "Boston", regardless the actual type.
P-40 = "Kittyhawk" or "Tomahawk", regardless the actual type.
IL-2 = "Maatalouskone" (literally "agricultural machinery"). The nickname seems to appear around June or July 1944.

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John Hilly
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by John Hilly » 31 Jan 2016 13:42

Brewster was sometimes called "Pylly Waltteri" 'Bum Walther' originating from the Finnish registration 'BW'.

With best, J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Lotvonen » 01 Feb 2016 06:45

More aircraft nicknames
Pe-2 (eg. FAF PLeLv28 aircraft PE-215) Pekka-Eemeli
Westland Lysander = Äly, i.e. LY-* in its code. Äly = wit, intelligence
Gloster Gladiator = Gelli (GL-*)
Fokker C.X = Frans Kalle (FK-*)

Soviet R-5 in nightly action was called "hermosaha" (nerve saw)

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by JTV » 01 Feb 2016 20:50

Few more:
- Italian 7.35 mm rifle m/38: "Terni-kivääri" ("Terni rifle"), named after one of its manufacturers.
- 7.62 mm Winchester m/95 rifle: "Ryssän Winsu" ("Russki Winchester"), named that way because the rifles originated from Russian military in 1918.
- Colt 1911 pistol: "Ryssän coltti" ("Russki Colt"), may have been named that way to separate it from other Colt automatic pistols (mainly model 1903) and because of much of them originating form Russian military in 1918.
- 7.63 mm and 9 mm Mauser m/1896 pistols: "Ukko-Mauser" ("Old man Mauser").
- 7.65 mm Mauser m/1914 pistol: "Akka-Mauser" ("Old woman Mauser).
- 7.65 mm "Ruby" pistol m/19: "Espanjalainen pistooli" ("Spanish pistol"), named that way due to being manufactured in Spain.
- 9 mm pistol L-35: "Lahti-pistooli" ("Lahti-pistol"), named after the person who designed it - Aimo Lahti.
- 9 mm submachine gun m/31: "Suomi-konepistooli" ("Suomi submachine gun"), Suomi = Finland.
- 7.62 mm Lahti-Saloranta light machinegun m/26: "Kootut häiriöt" ("Cummulated malfunctions"), named that way due to its inreliability.
- Soviet 7.62 mm anti-aircraft machinegun m/09-31: "Urku-konekivääri" ("Organ machinegun"), presumably named that way due to having multiple machineguns.
- Finnish 20-mm antitank-rifle L-39: "Norsupyssy" ("Elephant gun").
- Finnish 20-mm ItK/40 VKT anti-aircraft gun: "Vekotin" ("Gadget"), nickname based to factory (Valtion Kivääritehdas) abbreviation.
- Swedish 75 ItK/30 BK anti-aircraft gun: "Siamilais-tykki" ("Siamese gun"), named that way because the particular guns had originally been manufactured for Kingdom of Siam (nowadays: Thailand).
- Italian 76 ItK/16-35 Br anti-aircraft gun: "Posetiivi" ("Barrel Organ"), named that way due to whistling sound made by wind in cavities of its gun carriage.
- German 88 ItK/37 RMB and RKBK anti-aircraft guns: "Rämäpää" ("Daredevil"), named that way after abbreviation used for the factory (Rheinmetal-Borsig).

Jarkko

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Juha Tompuri » 01 Feb 2016 23:10

igor_verh wrote:And what abour soviet aviation - did russian, american and english aircrafts, which were used on Karelian front, have an intresting nicknames?
Emphasis mine.

I-16: Rata', Sipiorava ((Siberian) flying squirrel)
I-153: Tsaikka', Tshaikka'

' =Finnish used, but not that Finnish origin.
Mangrove wrote:IL-2 = "Maatalouskone" (literally "agricultural machinery").
Sort of a word play: maataistelukone = ground attack plane

Regards, Juha

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by alpinoinMT » 08 Feb 2016 02:36

Juha Tompuri wrote:
igor_verh wrote:And what abour soviet aviation - did russian, american and english aircrafts, which were used on Karelian front, have an intresting nicknames?
Emphasis mine.

I-16: Rata', Sipiorava ((Siberian) flying squirrel)
I-153: Tsaikka', Tshaikka'

' =Finnish used, but not that Finnish origin.
Mangrove wrote:IL-2 = "Maatalouskone" (literally "agricultural machinery").
Sort of a word play: maataistelukone = ground attack plane

Regards, Juha
Well Juha, now I need to know the Finnish Army Phonetic Alphabet from WW2. please
Thanks Kiitos
a reporter once asked me, after an awards ceremony
"are purple hearts for soldiers & bronze stars for officers?'

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Mangrove » 27 Apr 2016 18:34

JTV wrote:There is basically no info about Lewis machineguns captured during World War 2 - if any were captured their number must have been really small.
According to a report by 1. Asevarasto-osasto stationed at Kajaani, they repaired a total of 8 "Lewis light machine guns" during the Winter War.

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by JTV » 28 Apr 2016 05:38

Mangrove wrote:
JTV wrote:There is basically no info about Lewis machineguns captured during World War 2 - if any were captured their number must have been really small.
According to a report by 1. Asevarasto-osasto stationed at Kajaani, they repaired a total of 8 "Lewis light machine guns" during the Winter War.
Might be worth noting that during World War 2 Finnish Airforce still had in its use dozens of Lewis machineguns mostly originating from aircraft acquired in 1920's. Spring of 1940 Air Force had 8 Lewis-machineguns in its aircraft and 40 dual-mounted machineguns as anti-aircraft weapons. Hence particular 8 weapons are not necessarily captured ones.

Finnish military had also sold 46 Lewis machineguns in year 1936 and 99 Lewis in year 1938 - in both cases the weapons were exported by Transbaltic Oy. The last 29 Lewis machineguns remaining in Finnish inventory were sold to Hollywood-based film company to be used as film props in year 1957.

Jarkko

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