Russian weapon in Finnish Army

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Juha Tompuri » 07 May 2016 20:17

JTV wrote:
Mangrove wrote:
JTV wrote:and 40 dual-mounted machineguns as anti-aircraft weapons.
The another of the two twin Lewis mounts defending Lahti during the Winter War.
Photo from Lahti Military Medicine Museum:
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Swing
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Swing » 17 Oct 2016 09:51

There were several ex-Soviet railway guns in Finnish army. Erik Wihtol in the article ” THE FINNISH NAVAL FORCES IN THE CLUTCHES OF THE CONTROL COMMISSION” (MERIVOIMAT VALVONTAKOMISSION KYNSISSÄ, Sotahistoriallinen Aikakauskirja 16) named one section “RAILWAY BATTERY SALES” (RAUTATIEPATTERIN MYYNTI) and indicated the price of each gun. On the other hand, all former Soviet property had to be returned in accordance with the Armistice Agreement. Сan anyone clarify this subject?

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John Hilly
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by John Hilly » 17 Oct 2016 13:45

Swing wrote:There were several ex-Soviet railway guns in Finnish army. Erik Wihtol in the article ” THE FINNISH NAVAL FORCES IN THE CLUTCHES OF THE CONTROL COMMISSION” (MERIVOIMAT VALVONTAKOMISSION KYNSISSÄ, Sotahistoriallinen Aikakauskirja 16) named one section “RAILWAY BATTERY SALES” (RAUTATIEPATTERIN MYYNTI) and indicated the price of each gun. On the other hand, all former Soviet property had to be returned in accordance with the Armistice Agreement. Сan anyone clarify this subject?
The Agreement didn't mean that war booty items or old tsar equipment should have been returned.

With best, J-P :milwink:
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Swing » 17 Oct 2016 14:37

John Hilly wrote:
The Agreement didn't mean that war booty items or old tsar equipment should have been returned.

With best, J-P :milwink:
War booty in Hanko region was covered by Paragraph 12 of Agreement. " Finland undertakes to restore all legal rights and interests of the United Nations on Finnish territory as they existed before the war, and to return their property." I know, that Paasikivi wrote: "Its (guns) value should be taken into consideration in the forthcoming reduction of economic accounts between the Soviet Union and Finland..." What happened in reality, the return of guns without mutual settlements or their buyout?

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JTV
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by JTV » 18 Oct 2016 05:54

Swing wrote: War booty in Hanko region was covered by Paragraph 12 of Agreement. " Finland undertakes to restore all legal rights and interests of the United Nations on Finnish territory as they existed before the war, and to return their property." I know, that Paasikivi wrote: "Its (guns) value should be taken into consideration in the forthcoming reduction of economic accounts between the Soviet Union and Finland..." What happened in reality, the return of guns without mutual settlements or their buyout?
Except area of Soviet military base in Hanko / Hango / Gangut peninsula was only rented, hence not really legally Soviet territory. In addition to which two or three of the 180mm railway guns were the ones that had been captured in Karelian Isthmus. What I could find (Niilo Lappalainen: Aselevon jälkeen) the Soviets did first demand returning of the railway guns claiming that "the railway guns had been forgotten in Hanko base when the Germans approached it", but since the treaty did not really apply to this matter, after some negotiations ended up buying them back. As far as known instead of actual payment the total sum was subtracted from war reparations that Finland was paying to Soviet Union.

Jarkko

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Swing » 18 Oct 2016 08:20

Thank you, JTV. What about "price" of Soviet motor torpedo boats and gunboat? Ships had to be returned to the SU in October 1944.

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Juha Tompuri » 18 Oct 2016 16:16

Swing wrote:What about "price" of Soviet motor torpedo boats and gunboat? Ships had to be returned to the SU in October 1944.
AFAIK they and the 10 small minesweeper boats also captured, were just handed over to the Soviet Navy.
Captured motor vehicles (cars, trucks, tractors and motorcycles) and also unserviceable vehicles (for spares) were handed over too.

Along with the railway artillery, Finland also sold to the Soviet side 72(70?) torpedoes for 540 000 USD and IIRC also aerial bombs.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... it#p965011

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Swing » 19 Oct 2016 17:16

Juha Tompuri wrote: Along with the railway artillery, Finland also sold ... IIRC also aerial bombs.
Regards, Juha
Could you please clarify info about aerial bombs.

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Juha Tompuri » 19 Oct 2016 20:01

Swing wrote:Could you please clarify info about aerial bombs.
Sorry, at least at the moment only memory based info.
I remember reading somewhere that during 1944 USSR suffered from certain level of lack of aerial bombs. Specially the heavier ones.
At that moment Finland had some extra of them, and so the bombs went abroad. IF I remember correctly.
I try to check the source(s).
Of course, if someone else has a better memory/sources, that would be appreciated. Proving my memory right or wrong.

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Juha Tompuri » 04 Nov 2016 21:50

Hmmmm...

I think that at least partially my memory still served me right.
Jukka Raunio at his book Lentäjän Näkökulma IV writes according to an unsourced K. W. Janarmo statement that Allied Control Comission (=USSR, JT) ordered Finland to send the finnish owned German 1000kg bombs (134 pcs) to Soviet Union.
Exact dates not mentioned.

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Juha Tompuri » 30 Dec 2016 21:15

JTV wrote: There is basically no info about Lewis machineguns captured during World War 2 - if any were captured their number must have been really small.
Yes, not that many were captured. Here a war diary mention of a rarity being captured from the Soviet partisans early 1942:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=2937776
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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Mangrove » 18 Dec 2017 12:30

SA-Kuva 82661-82663, Lewis guns used as anti-aircraft weapons by 2. Rautatieilmatorjuntakonekiväärikomppania at Tokari in 1942:

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by veeteetee » 18 Dec 2017 17:44

The ever so important - and almost always missing at AHF - SA numbers are 82661 and 82663.

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Re: Russian weapon in Finnish Army

Post by Mangrove » 02 Apr 2018 07:20

Twin Lewises at Ruotsinpyhtää Civil Guard. Wanha Ruotsinpyhtää / Suojeluskunta ja sota-aika / img04

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