Captive russian pilots

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farmer
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Re: Captive russian pilots

Post by farmer » 28 Apr 2021 11:43

Unfortunately documents of 836 BAP and 55 BAP are not published yet, so we can not check their loss reports.

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tramonte
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Re: Captive russian pilots

Post by tramonte » 07 Jun 2021 21:16

I have seen June 1944 monthly report of 276 BAD where was mentioned bomber division lost total 10 Pe-2s of which only 2 shot down by enemy pilots (one of them by Brewster pilots in 18 June near Hiitola where Finns captured two crew members). The list of KIA or MIA air men, just 21 is also backing losses of around 8-12 Pe-2s. If 276 BAD had lost let's say 30 Pe-2 there should be at least 50-60 lost air crew men.

So far i haven't found more that one other Pe-2 loss related to Karelian Istmus, that of VVS KBF (Baltic Fleet) in Siestarjoki, emergency landing 10 June 1944.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

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tramonte
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Re: Captive russian pilots

Post by tramonte » 09 Jun 2021 12:08

I don't claim having any kind of "final truth" of 9 June 44.

Loss reports of 13 VA adjusted with loss reports of 277 ShAD and 281 ShAD + personal losses of 113 BAD, 334 BAD and other units.

09.06.44 1 Tu-2 (334 BAD) did not return from combat missions. Likely shot down by Finnish AA.
09.06.44 1 Tu-2 lost when landing in air field (accident?)
09.06.44: 2 Il-4 shot down/did not return: 8 crew members MIA (3 or 4 captured in Silantojärvi)... these losses were not reported by 13 VA, i haven't found reports of 113 BAD. Based only on personal loss reports.

09.06.44: 1 Il-2 (52 OKAE), pilot Obidin captured
09.06.44: 1 Il-2 (277 ShAD) shot down by AA (crew, major Balakan, sergeant Temnov KIA)
09.06.44: 1 Il-2 (703 ShAP) shot down by AA (the crew killed)
09.06.44: 1 Il-2 (703 ShAP) was hit by AA then shot down by fighter (pilot unharmed, gunner wounded). This case likely caused by Finnish AA.

total……...8 aircraft

VVS KBF lost one Pe-2 but not related to Karelian Istmus. Bomber shot down by own AA unit near Pskov.

Personal losses of 334 BAD (Tu-2) in 9 June 44:

Bykhovtsev, Jegor ) 134 BAP, MIA(Kanneljärvi) POW
Bolotnov, Dmitry (sgnt) 134 BAP, Mia (Kanneljärvi)
Silin, Alexander (warrant) 134 BAP MIA (Kanneljärvi)
Tsarapkin, Vasily (sgnt), 134 BAP, MIA

Personal losses of 113 BAD (Il-4) in 9 June 44

Fedotov, Timofei Stepanovich (jnr.lieutn). (836 BAP) MIA Captured
Koryshev, Alexander (lieutn)(836 BAP) MIA Captured
Yurchenko, Luca (sgnt) MIA
Soloviev, Mikhail (sgnt) MIA
Serebryannikov, Ludwig (sgnt) (55 BAP) MIA Captured (?)
Balashev, Pjotr (jnr lieutn).(55 BAP) KIA (in Hartonen)
Prikhodko, Andrey (jnr lieutn) (55 BAP) KIA (in Hartonen)
Marchenko, Fedor (sgnt).(55 BAP) MIA Captured (Silantojärvi)

No personal losses of 276 BAD (Pe-2) mentioned. No personal losses of 275 IAD ( fighter aircraft division) mentioned. No personal fighter pilot losses of PVO mentioned.

Personal losses of 281 ShAD (Il-2) in 9 June 44:

Zakharov,Pjotr (lieutn) MIA 703 ShAP
Launov, Dmitry (sgnt) MIA 703 ShAP

Other crew: pilot unharmed, gunner wounded.

Personal losses of 277 ShAD in 9 June 44:

Major Balakan and sgnt Temnov KIA.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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Re: Captive russian pilots

Post by Stephan » 26 Jul 2021 14:08

tramonte wrote:
25 Apr 2021 17:21


And case of sgt Medvedev (shooter/ radio operator), Pe-2 crew member of 58 BAP, is pretty interesting. How to get POW of bomber while there were no loss reports of Pe-2s? Got hit on cockpit, thrown away from aircraft, parachuted perhaps and then captured in 13 June? What a story!
I dont know nothing about this case.
But the scenario of crew abandoning a badly hit plane, while the pilot tries to land it, isnt unheard of.
Here the pilot apparently managed to land it in a friendly zone; as no such plane got reported as missing...

And the observer / shooter jumped out with parachute, and survived him too.

This easier done, as Sovjets knew Finns were OK to captured sovjet soldiers (unlike Germans to taken sovjet soldiers)

They could shoot captured partisants and "desants" on place, but they were usually correct and even decent to captured regular soldiers.

But to save a plane, is always counting, so the pilot tried to save the plane although risking his life - and managed

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