Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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Hama
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Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

#1

Post by Hama » 08 Apr 2017, 14:12

I heard that during the Winter War there were foreigners from many countries (e.g. Estonia, Latvia, Hungary, Denmark, Poland, etc.) who fought for the Finns. I'm just curious does anyone know how these units communicated with their Finnish comrades and higher-up commanders?

I mean Finnish has never been a world-famous language, and I doubt many foreigners who came there to fight would have known one word of it (with the exception of perhaps the Estonians, since the languages are a bit similar). Was there some other 'lingua franca' used for communication between the foreign troops and the Finns?

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Re: Foreign volunteers

#2

Post by Seppo Jyrkinen » 09 Apr 2017, 20:20

Scandinavian volunteers were the biggest group and they were able to communicate with Swedish-speaking Finns (10% of population) without big problems. Mostly foreigners were in their own units, so need to talk with Finns was limited.

Flying unit Flygflottilj 19 (ca. 300 volunteers from Sweden) took part with the war from 12. January until the end of the war. Whole Northern Finland was for them so there was need to talk with Finns on the ground only.

There were also some (4?) fighter pilots from Denmark who were flying in the Finnish units. Also at least one Italian pilot. Don't know how their communication was arranged, but all fighter planes didn't have radios.

Scandinavian unit at the front line had perhaps 2.500 men, mostly from Sweden but also several hundreds Norwegians. Swedish and Norwegian languages are very near relatives. Their war stared some 3 weeks before peace in Northern Finland and at the front lines there weren't any Finns to talk with them.

Also a handful of American-Finns took part with the war.

Some 350 Hungarians 200 other men from different nationalities came to Finland, but didn't took part with fighting.
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Hama
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Re: Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

#3

Post by Hama » 10 Apr 2017, 13:22

I see, thanks for the information. I figured people like the Swedes would be able to find some common language to use with the Finns (given their proximity and past history). Didn't know about the others though. So Swedish was one of the main lingua francas, thanks for that info.
Seppo Jyrkinen wrote: Some 350 Hungarians 200 other men from different nationalities came to Finland, but didn't took part with fighting.
So the non-Scandinavian volunteers like the Hungarians, Poles, and Latvians didn't actually fight in the war? I didn't know that, I thought I read that some of them did. This article claims there were at least 6 Polish volunteers on the records serving with Finnish forces during the war: http://www.ngopole.pl/2012/12/14/karbow ... finlandii/

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Re: Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

#4

Post by Juha Tompuri » 10 Apr 2017, 19:52

Hi ,

Something about the issue from the past:

Foreign volunteers in the Winter War:
http://www.axishistory.com/axis-nations ... winter-war

Volunteers in Winter and Continuation Wars:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=90016&hilit

Polish nationals in Finnish army:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=109626&hilit

Polish pilots in Ilmavoimat during Winter War:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=204848

British Troops In Finland 1940:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=104475&hilit

The Finnish American Legion in the Winter War:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=196393

Irishmen in Finnish Army:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9423&hilit

Dutch soldiers in Winter War?
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=96869&hilit

Danish Finnlandkorps?
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75806&hilit

Danish workers / engineers at VL
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=190222&hilit

Questions about Hungarian volunteers for Finland 1939-1940
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9472&hilit

Czechoslovak volunteers in the Winter War
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=174337&hilit

Norwegian volunteers:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=70953&hilit

Flemish/Belgian volunteers
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=223440&hilit

Regards, Juha

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Hama
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Re: Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

#5

Post by Hama » 13 Apr 2017, 14:06

Edit: Thanks Juha, looking through those links a second time, seems there were a variety of languages used to talk between Finns and foreigners on a case by case basis (e.g. Russian in the case of some Poles and Swedish in the case of the Scandinavians).

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Claes Johansen
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Re: Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

#6

Post by Claes Johansen » 14 Apr 2017, 17:03

... seems there were a variety of languages used to talk between Finns and foreigners on a case by case basis (e.g. Russian in the case of some Poles and Swedish in the case of the Scandinavians).
Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings about this: Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are very closely related languages. In those days, people were taught in school to speak their respective mother tongues much more clearly and accurately than they are today, so people from all over Scandinavia could generally communicate without making too much of an extra effort. I very much doubt that many Norwegians or Danes would or could speak Swedish, nor was it necessary.

In regard to the Finns, the Swedish-speaking minority was, measured as a percentage, larger in those days than it is nowadays. Particularly among people of the "educated classes", the ability to speak and understand Swedish (and with that also the ability to understand and particularly read Danish and Norwegian) was pronounced, as indeed it also is today. A large part of the Finnish officer corps had Swedish as their primary language, particularly among the higher ranking personnel, the prime example being Mannerheim, who never learned to fully master the Finnish language. It raises the interesting question of how much of the planning and communication at top level was in reality carried out in Swedish. My personal guess would be that a very large part of it was, looking at the individuals we are talking about. I've even read somewhere that at political level, certain restrictions on speaking Swedish were introduced.

In all I have personally read about the Scandinavian volunteer units in the Finnish Army during WWII, I have never come across any mentioning whatsoever of confusion of languages (the same, incidentally, goes for the Nordic volunteer groups in the Danish Army during the Second Schleswigian War of 1864). What I have come across, however, is mentioning of language confusion at a lower military level between Finish-speaking and Swedish-speaking units in the regular Finnish Army.

I think there are several important lessons for the Nordic peoples of today to be learned from these facts, because our ability to understand each other when speaking our respective languages has certainly deteriorated over the last five decades or so, mainly due to sloppiness in pronunciation, particularly on behalf of the Danes. The only ones who still seem to still hold their language in high regard are the Swedish speaking Finns. But that's all a whole different story, of course - as presented here:



Ystävällesin terveisin, the Tanskalainen
Ystävällesin terveisin, the Tanskalainen

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

#7

Post by Juha Tompuri » 16 Apr 2017, 11:02

Hi "the Tanskalainen" :)

Welcome to the Forum.
A nice video - now we all finally know the background of Macarena. ;)

Regards, Juha

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Claes Johansen
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Re: Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

#8

Post by Claes Johansen » 16 Apr 2017, 15:43

@ Juha. Kiitos!

Seppy Jyrkinen wrote:
There were also some (4?) fighter pilots from Denmark who were flying in the Finnish units.
The number 4 must be referring only to the Danish pilots who were killed in action. In fact, the Danish contribution to the Finnish Air Force was much larger so I decided to open this thread on the issue: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=228089
Ystävällesin terveisin, the Tanskalainen

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: Foreign volunteers and language in the Winter War

#9

Post by Juha Tompuri » 17 Apr 2017, 09:05

Juha Tompuri wrote:Hi ,

Something about the issue from the past:

Foreign volunteers in the Winter War:
http://www.axishistory.com/axis-nations ... winter-war

Volunteers in Winter and Continuation Wars:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=90016&hilit

Polish nationals in Finnish army:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=109626&hilit

Polish pilots in Ilmavoimat during Winter War:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=204848

British Troops In Finland 1940:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=104475&hilit

The Finnish American Legion in the Winter War:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=196393

Irishmen in Finnish Army:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9423&hilit

Dutch soldiers in Winter War?
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=96869&hilit

Danish Finnlandkorps?
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75806&hilit

Danish workers / engineers at VL
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=190222&hilit

Questions about Hungarian volunteers for Finland 1939-1940
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9472&hilit

Czechoslovak volunteers in the Winter War
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=174337&hilit

Norwegian volunteers:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=70953&hilit

Flemish/Belgian volunteers
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=223440&hilit
One more:
5.01.1940 fallen Mathias Madsen, Danish volunteer:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=162667&hilit=30&start=30#p1698628

Regards, Juha

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