How Mannerheim ordered 160 Finnish Jews sent to Sweden!

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Anne G,
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Re: How Mannerheim ordered 160 Finnish Jews sent to Sweden!

Post by Anne G, » 04 Dec 2017 10:50

Seppo Jyrkinen wrote:Clear? So if Jewish refugees in Finland were in danger to be send to Germany, Sweden took important to refuse those people to be send to Sweden! Wont understand.

We are talking about 150 people. So small amount of people should be a "no question" matter.
Sweden refused because there was no immidate danger any more, until 1944. As the Swedes exlained, Finland had a responsibility for refugees it had accepted.

Considering that Sweden had accepted over 70 000 Finnish children and thousands of Norwegian refugees, I don't think that it's right to criticize them. Also to Finland, the number of Jewish refugees was small compared with f.x. thousands of Estonian refugees (many of them also wanted to go Sweden in 1944).

Seppo Jyrkinen
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Re: How Mannerheim ordered 160 Finnish Jews sent to Sweden!

Post by Seppo Jyrkinen » 10 Dec 2017 18:31

To understand and to criticize are two different things.
Anne G, wrote:Sweden refused because there was no immidate danger any more, until 1944. As the Swedes exlained, Finland had a responsibility for refugees it had accepted.
– At 1942 there was some 6-7.000 refugees in Sweden and 150 more was too much.
– At Spring 1944 there was 48.000 refugees and refugee Jews were accepted.
Where is the logic?

If Germans had made a demand according to those refugees (ex-Austrian citizens), the game had been lost. Germany had a thumb screw: Finland's agriculture was able to produce some 50-75% of the food which was necessary. And Germany also utilized this tool during the war (as well as weapons deliveries).

After 17.11.1942 Finns were in a hurry to get this small group out of the country and authorities made two trials to get Sweden to accept them. Last one after Hansson's negative and creepy answer. Both trials were made hastily.

On Finland's side at least president Ryti and 6 ministers were informed about the plan to get refugees to Sweden. On Sweden's side at least 3 ministers, two public officers on high level and also Sweden's Red Cross gave a negative answer.

Those 150 refugees were a "hot potato" to both Governments. This is a puzzle in which important pieces are missing.
Anne G, wrote:Considering that Sweden had accepted over 70 000 Finnish children
At 1941-1942 21.000 children was sendt to Sweden (not 70.000).
A word irony is baked into the word history.

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JTV
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Re: How Mannerheim ordered 160 Finnish Jews sent to Sweden!

Post by JTV » 10 Dec 2017 19:35

Seppo Jyrkinen wrote: – At 1942 there was some 6-7.000 refugees in Sweden and 150 more was too much.
– At Spring 1944 there was 48.000 refugees and refugee Jews were accepted.
Where is the logic?
The obvious simple answer could be that Sweden made a policy change due to it becoming apparent that Germany was going to lose the war? In other words maybe they still thought in 1942 that Axis might be able to win it and wanted to avoid agonizing Germany, but by spring of 1944 they would have come to conclusion that Allies were going to win the war soon - and therefore decided to disregard German opinion and gather the "browney points" for possible further use.

I remember seeing some hints about such Swedish policy change for the specific reason in some sources and the imports of materials (such as TNT, gunpowder and ordnance steel) needed by Finnish industry to maintain war production did a nosedive in 1942.

Jarkko

Seppo Jyrkinen
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Re: How Mannerheim ordered 160 Finnish Jews sent to Sweden!

Post by Seppo Jyrkinen » 19 Dec 2017 19:14

JTV wrote:...Sweden made a policy change...
Jarkko
I agree with you that there was a change in Sweden's policy during 1942-1943.

What makes this question anyhow interesting is, that in two countries one president and at least 10 ministers were informed and at least 5 ministers were involved the case. And we are talking about 150 people.

The dot is in a wrong place!
A word irony is baked into the word history.

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Claes Johansen
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Re: How Mannerheim ordered 160 Finnish Jews sent to Sweden!

Post by Claes Johansen » 19 Dec 2017 20:01

The obvious simple answer could be that Sweden made a policy change due to it becoming apparent that Germany was going to lose the war?
Who didn't?
Ystävällesin terveisin, the Tanskalainen

John T
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Re: How Mannerheim ordered 160 Finnish Jews sent to Sweden!

Post by John T » 19 Dec 2017 23:20

JTV wrote:
Seppo Jyrkinen wrote: – At 1942 there was some 6-7.000 refugees in Sweden and 150 more was too much.
– At Spring 1944 there was 48.000 refugees and refugee Jews were accepted.
Where is the logic?
The obvious simple answer could be that Sweden made a policy change due to it becoming apparent that Germany was going to lose the war? In other words maybe they still thought in 1942 that Axis might be able to win it and wanted to avoid agonizing Germany, but by spring of 1944 they would have come to conclusion that Allies were going to win the war soon - and therefore decided to disregard German opinion and gather the "browney points" for possible further use.
Undoubtedly one reason but also that Germany where more locked in combat with USSR,
so Sweden started to feel she had more options than earlier.
One further reason was that Swedish government started to understand what Germany did to Jews.
The Jews were not just sent into reservations, but actually disapeared.
So Swedish Foreign office stared to give Swedish passports to any Jew with enough Swedish connections during 1942
(German authorities accepted that Jews got Swedish citizenship if there where "legal grounds",
like marriage of convenience or close enough relatives in Sweden)

and during 1943 the doors where open for any Danish or Norwegian Jew that where able to get across the border.

JTV wrote: I remember seeing some hints about such Swedish policy change for the specific reason in some sources and the imports of materials (such as TNT, gunpowder and ordnance steel) needed by Finnish industry to maintain war production did a nosedive in 1942.
Mainly because Finland was an ally of Nazi Germany and thus part of the war.
And yes "Allied with Nazi Germany" was the term the western allies used at the time.
Sweden could not support Finland with "implements of war" and pretend to be Neutral at the same time.

And Partly by the simple fact that Finland did not pay their bills, but asked for more cedits.

Cheers
/John T

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