Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

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Mangrove
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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Mangrove » 14 Aug 2021 17:30

Miscellaneous Finnish claims from 1943 based on the war diaries of Ilmavoimien Esikunta and various squadrons. All times are standard Finnish time.

29 April 1943. Two Polikarpov I-153 from Lentolaivue 6 strafed one of three Soviet guard ships between Seiskari Island and Harjavalta between 6.40 and 7.10 p.m. No visible damage was observed.

2 May 1943. German ship opened fire against Finnish Tupolev SB bomber "SB-13" from Lentolaivue 6 at the Gulf of Finland at grid 115 C 22. The attack took place between 8.15 and 9.00 a.m. The Finnish airplane was slightly damaged.

19 May 1943. Brewster B-239 from Lentolaivue 24 strafed a Soviet motor torpedo boat 7 km east of Seiskari Island at between 1.20 and 3.05 a.m. The boat started to smoke.

20 May 1943. Messerschmitt Bf 109 "MT-203", piloted by Lt. Ruotsila, was damaged either by Soviet fighters or anti-aircraft fire from a convoy near Lavansaari Island. The plane crashed into the Gulf of Finland near Äljy Island. Ruotsila had died instantly from a bullet through his head.

8 June 1943. Two Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet tugboat and two barges at Lake Onega some two kilometres south of Lake Muromskoye at 11.40 p.m. Bombs, 4 x 100 kg and 16 x 12,5 kg, hit the other barge. Flames and cloud from the explosion were observed. The tugboat and the barges, along with a gunboat, had been observed previously to have been arrived to the location from the mouth of Vytegra River.

June 1943. Three Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet gunboat north of the mouth of Vytegra River at Lake Olonets. Two 100 kg bombs missed by 60 metres, at least some 12.5 kg bombs hit the boat.

23 August 1943. Two Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet convoy consisted of two tugboats, two barges and a gunboat c. 8 kilometres south of Muromskoye at Lake Olonets. The closest hits were observed 40-50 metres away.

23 August 1943. Two Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed again the Soviet convoy, now located between the mouths of Vodla and Chyornaya River some five kilometres from the shore. Closest hits were observed some 50 metres away.

1 September 1943. Three Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet convoy consisted of two gunboats, three tugboats and three barges at Besov Nos at Lake Onega. Closest hits were observed some 20-30 metres away.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 19 Aug 2021 21:06

lupodimare89 wrote:
18 Jul 2021 10:58
Thanks for the corrections and the addition!
I am curious for details of this subsequent engagement:
1) There are known casualites among the Soviet troops or daage to the tenders during the attack?
2) Fate/name of Finnish pilots shot down?
3) It's possible to identify which tender shot down the Curtiss and which one of the pair was hit by her? (Also cause of the other Curtiss loss is interesting).
There were several wounded on small Soviet ships (there were not only tenders, but also small minesweeping boats and motorboots). The soviet reports do not give the exact number (only "a few wounded").
Some boats had bullet holes, but all remained in service.

The crew of tender N 911 was awarded for the downed fighter (tender commander V.N. Degtyarev and machine gunner F.S. Smirnov).
It was probably CU-562 because Soviet crews watched it crash.

Covering fighters claim the second Curtiss.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 19 Aug 2021 23:25

Mangrove wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:30
29 April 1943. Two Polikarpov I-153 from Lentolaivue 6 strafed one of three Soviet guard ships between Seiskari Island and Harjavalta between 6.40 and 7.10 p.m. No visible damage was observed.
"MO-213" on patrol line No. 52 (this is to the east of Seskar island) was unsuccessfully attacked by an enemy aircraft. I have not found any other air attack reports for this day.
Mangrove wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:30
19 May 1943. Brewster B-239 from Lentolaivue 24 strafed a Soviet motor torpedo boat 7 km east of Seiskari Island at between 1.20 and 3.05 a.m. The boat started to smoke.
There is no information about this attack.

On the night of May 19, a convoy was sailing to Lavensaari from Kronstadt. From 2h 58m to 3h 45m Moscow time was fired twice by a Finnish battery from the northern coast. Netlayer "Onega" got a hole. The boats covered it with a smoke screen.

Three MTB from 22h 15m 18/05 to 03h 15m 19/05 laid mines in the Bjerke Sound. They had no meetings with the enemy.
Mangrove wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:30
20 May 1943. Messerschmitt Bf 109 "MT-203", piloted by Lt. Ruotsila, was damaged either by Soviet fighters or anti-aircraft fire from a convoy near Lavansaari Island. The plane crashed into the Gulf of Finland near Äljy Island. Ruotsila had died instantly from a bullet through his head.
Four I-153 fighters from 71 IAP at 6h 50m Moscow time fought in the Lavensaari area with two Me-109s. One Me-109 was shot down and, according to Soviet data, fell 16 miles north of Lavensaari. One I-153 was damaged.

Four I-153 and four I-16 from 71 IAPs from 20h 00m to 22h 15m covered the convoy between Lavensaari and Seskar. At about 21h 20m, the attack of a single Me-109 was repulsed. (Declared he was knocked down)
Mangrove wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:30
8 June 1943. Two Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet tugboat and two barges at Lake Onega some two kilometres south of Lake Muromskoye at 11.40 p.m. Bombs, 4 x 100 kg and 16 x 12,5 kg, hit the other barge. Flames and cloud from the explosion were observed. The tugboat and the barges, along with a gunboat, had been observed previously to have been arrived to the location from the mouth of Vytegra River.
At 00:20 Moscow time on June 9, three "Curtiss-type" aircraft attacked a convoy (patrol ship SKR-14, gunboat KL-41, tug Izhorets-47 with a barge with food), sailing from Ozernoye Ustye to Shala (Šalla). The barge was damaged. To cover the convoy, armored boats BKA-21 and BKA-22 and two LAGG-3 fighters came out. At 0745 hours, the convoy with the barge arrived to Shala.
Mangrove wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:30
June 1943. Three Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet gunboat north of the mouth of Vytegra River at Lake Olonets. Two 100 kg bombs missed by 60 metres, at least some 12.5 kg bombs hit the boat.
On June 1, at 13:45, in the area of ​​the Vodla River estuary, three enemy aircraft entered from the direction of the sun and unexpectedly attacked gunboats KL-11, KL-12 and KL-41. KL-12 received 2 hits to the stern and sank within 3-4 minutes.
Then one of the planes fired at the sailors who were on the water with a machine gun. In this case, 8 people were killed. KL-41 rescued 22 crew members, including the captain. A total of 27 people died.

At 18:15, in the Vytegra area, three "Curtiss-type" aircraft attacked minesweeping boats N 47, 49, 130, 131 and 132. On N 130, 2 sailors were killed and 5 people were wounded, including the commander of the formation.
Mangrove wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:30
23 August 1943. Two Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet convoy consisted of two tugboats, two barges and a gunboat c. 8 kilometres south of Muromskoye at Lake Olonets. The closest hits were observed 40-50 metres away.

23 August 1943. Two Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed again the Soviet convoy, now located between the mouths of Vodla and Chyornaya River some five kilometres from the shore. Closest hits were observed some 50 metres away.
A convoy consisting of the patrol ship "SKR-14", tugs, a tanker and barges. At 15h 25m Moscow time, it was attacked by two "Curtiss", which dropped two 50-70 kg bombs from an altitude of 1500-2000 meters. The planes did not launch a second attack and went to the north-west.

At 19:20 convoy was again attacked by two planes. "SKR-14" opened fire, and one plane left for the northwest, the other dropped 2 bombs away from the convoy.
After that, the flotilla commander sent the KL-40 gunboat to reinforce the convoy. At 20h 50m "KL-40" joined the convoy, which arrived to Shala at 23h 15m.
Mangrove wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:30
1 September 1943. Three Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet convoy consisted of two gunboats, three tugboats and three barges at Besov Nos at Lake Onega. Closest hits were observed some 20-30 metres away.
A convoy (gunboat "KL-41", tugboats "Izhorets-48", "Okun" and "Herzen"), sailing from Ozernoye Ustye to Shala, at 15:50 Moscow time near Cape Besov Nos was attacked by three "Heinkel-123". Three bombs were dropped, causing no damage. "KL-41" fired at the planes with anti-aircraft fire.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Mangrove » 20 Aug 2021 13:50

thungus wrote:
19 Aug 2021 23:25
Mangrove wrote:
14 Aug 2021 17:30
June 1943. Three Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet gunboat north of the mouth of Vytegra River at Lake Olonets. Two 100 kg bombs missed by 60 metres, at least some 12.5 kg bombs hit the boat.
On June 1, at 13:45, in the area of ​​the Vodla River estuary, three enemy aircraft entered from the direction of the sun and unexpectedly attacked gunboats KL-11, KL-12 and KL-41. KL-12 received 2 hits to the stern and sank within 3-4 minutes.
Then one of the planes fired at the sailors who were on the water with a machine gun. In this case, 8 people were killed. KL-41 rescued 22 crew members, including the captain. A total of 27 people died.

At 18:15, in the Vytegra area, three "Curtiss-type" aircraft attacked minesweeping boats N 47, 49, 130, 131 and 132. On N 130, 2 sailors were killed and 5 people were wounded, including the commander of the formation.
For some reason, the date was missing from my post and the link is not working, here's the original text I tried to send:

21 June 1943. Between 1.00 - 3.20 p.m / 13:00 - 15:20 (Finnish time). Three Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet gunboat north of the mouth of Vytegra River at Lake Olonets. Two 100 kg bombs missed by 60 metres, at least some 12.5 kg bombs hit the boat.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 20 Aug 2021 17:45

Mangrove wrote:
20 Aug 2021 13:50
21 June 1943. Between 1.00 - 3.20 p.m / 13:00 - 15:20 (Finnish time). Three Fokker C.X dive bombers from Lentolaivue 16 bombed a Soviet gunboat north of the mouth of Vytegra River at Lake Olonets. Two 100 kg bombs missed by 60 metres, at least some 12.5 kg bombs hit the boat.
From the Soviet side, the episode of June 21, 1943 looks like this:
"SKR-14" patrol ship was returning after escorting "Udarnik" tug (with a barge) at the mouth of the Andoma River. At 14h 50m Moscow time, he was attacked by three "Heinkel-126" flying at an altitude of 2000-2500 m. The ship opened fire on them, and the planes, dropping 10 bombs randomly, went west. These planes flew towards the mouth of the Andoma, where Soviet tugs and barges with cargo for army units were concentrated.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 20 Aug 2021 20:23

Lake Ladoga.

August 5, 1941
At 13:42 Moscow time, a convoy (gunboats "Bira" and "Bureya" and several transport ships) attacked near Valaam (Valamo). Three Ju-88s made three passes, dropping a total of 27 bombs. There were no hits. On the "Bira", its marine pilot, Captain Demidov, was wounded in the leg.

August 7, 1941
At 22h30m Moscow time near Lahdenpohja gunboat "Bureya" was attacked by a single Ju-88, which was bombing from a low altitude (200 m). It is believed that the plane was at least damaged by anti-aircraft fire (and according to the diary of the "Bureya" commander, it was shot down and crashed into a rock).

August 15, 1941
At 15h30m Moscow time, two bombers attacked ships and barges near Kilpola Island. (The ships were engaged in the evacuation of 142 and 198 divisions). 6 bombs were dropped from a height of 5000-5500 m. There were no hits.

The time is indicated according to the diary of the "Bureya" commander .

Aviation claims of the KBF in August 1944:

August 5, 1944
Six La-5 fighters from the 10th GIAP Regiment at 11h 58m attacked and set fire to a Finnish boat near Valaam. The boat washed ashore.

August 24, 1944
At 9h 45m and 17h 50m, four La-5 from 10th GIAP bombed the island of Ristisaari. According to aerial photography, one boat was sunk.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 21 Aug 2021 11:12

thungus wrote:
19 Aug 2021 21:06
The crew of tender N 911 was awarded for the downed fighter (tender commander V.N. Degtyarev and machine gunner F.S. Smirnov).
Тендер 911.jpg
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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 21 Aug 2021 11:30

Mangrove wrote:
05 Aug 2019 08:50
forum.axishistory.com - Soviet Naval Battles (help with info):
The Finnish watch stations along the Lake Onega spotted two Soviet gunboats and a large tugboat c. 10 kilometers south-west of Vasilisin Island on 1 June 1943. Three Fokker C.X light bombers were dispatched to bomb the boats. The observation stations saw the sinking of "a tugboat" (actually gunboat Nr. 12 / KALYAEV) a minute after the attack. One other ship received a minor hit on the aft and another on the bow. Later that day a Finnish reconnaissance flight observed a damaged gunboat taking on water near the mouth of the Vodla River.
Only KL-12 received hits. Two other gunboats were not damaged.
2 bombs fell 10-15 meters from the starboard side of the KL-11 and two more 15-20 meters from the starboard side of the KL-41
1_june.JPG
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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Mangrove » 23 Aug 2021 13:52

thungus wrote:
20 Aug 2021 20:23
August 5, 1941
At 13:42 Moscow time, a convoy (gunboats "Bira" and "Bureya" and several transport ships) attacked near Valaam (Valamo). Three Ju-88s made three passes, dropping a total of 27 bombs. There were no hits. On the "Bira", its marine pilot, Captain Demidov, was wounded in the leg.
There is a short mention of the incident on the diary of the HQ of the Finnish Air Forces: "Germans: Six Ju-88 planes bombed military targets at Valamo forenoon today. No information of the results".
thungus wrote:
20 Aug 2021 20:23
August 7, 1941
At 22h30m Moscow time near Lahdenpohja gunboat "Bureya" was attacked by a single Ju-88, which was bombing from a low altitude (200 m). It is believed that the plane was at least damaged by anti-aircraft fire (and according to the diary of the "Bureya" commander, it was shot down and crashed into a rock).
Finnish Bristol Blenheim from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed a Soviet tugboat and a barge c. 5 kilometres west of Valamo at 6.05 p.m. (18:05) Finnish time on August 7th, 1941. The bombs, 6 x 100 kg and 4 x 12.5 kg, were observed to hit in front of the bow of the tugboat.

Another Bristol Blenheim from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed a Soviet tugboat and two barges circa 1 kilometres from Lahdenpohja at 8.50 p.m. (20:50) Finnish time on August 7th, 1941. Bombs, 6 x 100 kg and 4 x 12.5 kg. One of the barges started smoking heavily.

Another Bristol Blenheim from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed the harbour at Valamo at 9.15 p.m (21:15) Finnish time on August 7th, 1941. Bombs 4 x 100 kg, no hits were observed.

Three Bristol Blenheims from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed ther harbour at Lahdenpohja at 9.50 p.m. (21:50) Finnish time on August 7th, 1941. No hits were observed due to darkness. One of the Blenheims did not return from the mission.

Bristol Blenheim from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed a large Soviet tugboat ferrying troops halfway between Lahdenpohja and Valamo at 8.42 a.m. on August 8th, 1941. Bombs, 6 x 100 kg and 4 x 12.5 kg, missed by c. 50 metres.
thungus wrote:
20 Aug 2021 20:23
August 15, 1941
At 15h30m Moscow time, two bombers attacked ships and barges near Kilpola Island. (The ships were engaged in the evacuation of 142 and 198 divisions). 6 bombs were dropped from a height of 5000-5500 m. There were no hits.
Finnish Bristol Blenheim from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed five Soviet ships near Puutsalo Island at Lake Ladoga at 7.38 a.m. (Finnish time) on August 15th, 1941. Bombs, 6 x 100 kg and 4 x 12.5 kg, hit water between the vessels.

Two Bristol Blenheims from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed Soviet ships at Kilpolansaari (Kilpola) at Lake Ladoga from altitude of 4000 metres at 4.20 p.m. (14:20, Finnish time) on August 15th, 1941. Bombs were 10 x 100 kg and 8 x 12.5 kg.

Three Bristol Blenheims from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed two or three Soviet tugboats and eight barges between Heinsimäsaari and Kurkiniemi at Lake Ladoga from altitude of 4000 metres at 4.25 p.m. (16:25, Finnish time) on August 15th, 1941. Bombs, 16 x 100 kg and 8 x 12.5 kg, missed.
thungus wrote:
20 Aug 2021 20:23
August 5, 1944
Six La-5 fighters from the 10th GIAP Regiment at 11h 58m attacked and set fire to a Finnish boat near Valaam. The boat washed ashore.
There are no Finnish losses marked by Finnish Laatokan Rannikkoprikaati nor Meripataljoona 3 for the day.

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3606383 - Soviets flights observed by the Finnish forces in the vicinity of Lake Ladoga between 1 and 30 April 1944.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3606338 - Soviets flights observed by the Finnish forces in the vicinity of Lake Ladoga between 1 and 31 May 1944.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3606272 - Soviets flights observed by the Finnish forces in the vicinity of Lake Ladoga in June 1944.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3606098 - Soviets flights observed by the Finnish forces in the vicinity of Lake Ladoga in July 1944.
thungus wrote:
20 Aug 2021 20:23
August 24, 1944
At 9h 45m and 17h 50m, four La-5 from 10th GIAP bombed the island of Ristisaari. According to aerial photography, one boat was sunk.
According to the diary of Laatokan Rannikkoprikaati, 9 x IL-2 and 2 x LaGG-3 (sic) strafed and bombed Ristisaari twice during the day. There were no damage other than one Finnish wounded. Diary of Meripataljoona 3 does not also record any losses.

According to Finnish Air Force summaries, 11. Rannikkoilmatorjuntapatteri claimed having shot down a LaGG-3 (sic) at Kaita's sawmill ("Kaidansaha ranta") on August 23rd and a La-5 north of Ristisaari on August 25th, 1944.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by lupodimare89 » 24 Aug 2021 11:15

Mangrove wrote:
23 Aug 2021 13:52
August 7, 1941
At 22h30m Moscow time near Lahdenpohja gunboat "Bureya" was attacked by a single Ju-88, which was bombing from a low altitude (200 m). It is believed that the plane was at least damaged by anti-aircraft fire (and according to the diary of the "Bureya" commander, it was shot down and crashed into a rock).
Three Bristol Blenheims from Lentorykmentti 4 bombed ther harbour at Lahdenpohja at 9.50 p.m. (21:50) Finnish time on August 7th, 1941. No hits were observed due to darkness. One of the Blenheims did not return from the mission.
[/quote]


There seems to be a matching off Bureya claim with the missing plane.
It is known serial code/number of plane and crew?


Btw thanks to all the contributors for the very interesting posts of this thread!

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Mangrove » 24 Aug 2021 12:30

lupodimare89 wrote:
24 Aug 2021 11:15
There seems to be a matching off Bureya claim with the missing plane. It is known serial code/number of plane and crew?
According to the diary of Lentolaivue 44, the mission went as follows. The task was to bomb transport vessels at and departing Lahdenpohja. BL-106 (Lt. Kokko) departed at 8.55 p.m, BL-117 (Cornet Hakkarainen) at 8.45 p.m, BL-120 (Lt. Nordgren) at 9.10 p.m, BL-146 (Cornet Suni) at 9.15 p.m, BL-111 (2nd Lt. Kuumola) at 9.20 p.m and BL-116 (2nd Lt. Merikallio) at 9.25 p.m. Each plane carried 6 x 100 kg and 4 x 12.5 kg bombs.

BL-116 could not locate the harbour and bombed troops marching on the road at Heinsalmi. BL-146 (Observer Cornet Suni, pilot Lt. Moilanen and gunner Corporal Pohja) did not return from the mission. She was a Bristol Blenheim Mk. I, Series II. The wreck was later discovered at Ännikänniemi, Uukuniemi, some 30 kilometres north of Lahdenpohja. The cause of the crash was deemed to be damage either due to Soviet anti-aircraft fire or fighters.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by lupodimare89 » 24 Aug 2021 13:55

Mangrove wrote:
24 Aug 2021 12:30
BL-116 could not locate the harbour and bombed troops marching on the road at Heinsalmi. BL-146 (Observer Cornet Suni, pilot Lt. Moilanen and gunner Corporal Pohja) did not return from the mission. She was a Bristol Blenheim Mk. I, Series II. The wreck was later discovered at Ännikänniemi, Uukuniemi, some 30 kilometres north of Lahdenpohja. The cause of the crash was deemed to be damage either due to Soviet anti-aircraft fire or fighters.
Thanks, location and don't really match then. Seems to me Bureya just attempted defence against the other planes.

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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 26 Aug 2021 21:39

Thank you very much for such detailed information!!
Mangrove wrote:
23 Aug 2021 13:52
According to Finnish Air Force summaries, 11. Rannikkoilmatorjuntapatteri claimed having shot down a LaGG-3 (sic) at Kaita's sawmill ("Kaidansaha ranta") on August 23rd and a La-5 north of Ristisaari on August 25th, 1944.
On August 25, four La-5s from 10 giap KBF launched a bomb attack on targets on the island of Ristisaari. Anti-aircraft artillery shot down 1 La-5 (senior lieutenant G. Guryanov MIA).
25avg.JPG
Гурьянов.JPG
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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 26 Aug 2021 21:57

lupodimare89 wrote:
24 Aug 2021 13:55
Thanks, location and don't really match then. Seems to me Bureya just attempted defence against the other planes.
The plane crashed at the location of the 462nd Infantry Regiment.
From the regiment's combat log:
"At 2300, a Finnish twin-engine bomber crashed near Lake Ieronlampi, hit by the fire of our anti-aircraft machine guns. (This is the fourth aircraft shot down by our regiment.) The crew of three officers were killed."

Ieronlampi - it's just near Ännikänniemi. (Strange, like LeLv 44 at that time was based on Mikkeli? Which airfield was he flying to?)
00000032.jpg
The time of the attack on the "Bureya" is approximately the same.

I think the plane was damaged during the attack and fell on the way back or was finished off by anti-aircraft gunners from the 462nd regiment.
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Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Mangrove » 29 Aug 2021 17:34

thungus wrote:
26 Aug 2021 21:57
Ieronlampi - it's just near Ännikänniemi. (Strange, like LeLv 44 at that time was based on Mikkeli? Which airfield was he flying to?)
While Lentolaivue 44 was based at Mikkeli (EFMI) at the time, the mission report mentions Rantasalmi (EFRN) being the designated emergency airfield. Also, Onttola (Joensuu, EFJO) airfield was available for landing in the north. Both airfields are around 100 kilometres away from Ännikänniemi.

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