Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
I'm looking for as many as possible sources (Russian or not) confirming that the Finns shelled Mainila as was the official Soviet point of view.
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Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
The Russian TV channel Zvezda published this article last year:
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 4-1vri.htm
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 4-1vri.htm
In the prewar relations between the USSR and Germany, there is a clear desire to determine the strength of the parties. Such a test was the war with Finland. The Soviet Union, in order to ensure its security, asked Finland to move the border away from Leningrad into the depths of the Karelian Isthmus and offered in return twice the territory. Finland responded with military provocation with the clear support of Germany and the warmongers.
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Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
There is no proof as it's simply not true.
Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
If this is from last year, then the system is still very intransparent. That is not much of a reappraisal. The USSR was one of the greatest war mongers in human history, I like the choice of words here.In the prewar relations between the USSR and Germany, there is a clear desire to determine the strength of the parties. Such a test was the war with Finland. The Soviet Union, in order to ensure its security, asked Finland to move the border away from Leningrad into the depths of the Karelian Isthmus and offered in return twice the territory. Finland responded with military provocation with the clear support of Germany and the warmongers.
There is a summary presented in "The Russian record of the winter war, 1939-40: Analytical study of soviet records of the war with finland from 30. November 1939 to 12th March 1940".
https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/19633
Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
If you take official statements in November 1939, there were no evidences presented just claims of something being a fact. (That being said, Finnish response was not much better when it comes to factual statements). The thing that looks like a coherent argument in post-war or even present-day discussions was a reference to similar (but less known) shootouts and accidents on the Soviet-Finnish border in 1939.
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Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
pretty sad thingSeppo Koivisto wrote: ↑21 Nov 2018, 00:17The Russian TV channel Zvezda published this article last year:
- Juha Tompuri
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Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
https://victorymuseum.ru/for-visitors/m ... -china/en/
https://twitter.com/muzeypobedy/status/ ... 0150773761:
edit 021219: online translation
https://twitter.com/muzeypobedy/status/ ... 0150773761:
Regards, JuhaThe Soviet-Finnish war began 80 years ago. It's also called Winter." During the 105 days of armed conflict, hundreds of thousands of people were killed and wounded. The reason for the beginning was the shelling of the positions of Soviet troops by Finnish artillery.
edit 021219: online translation
Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
"pretext" not "reason". That is how it is translated. If you add the missing word "alleged" than the whole phrase is just a commonplace.
- Juha Tompuri
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Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
"Staged" would have been more truthful.
Regards, Juha
Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
No reliable factual basis for that.
- Laurance.Robinson
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Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
But there is certainly enough circumstantial evidence to draw a conclusion that the event wasn't committed by Finland and was a fabrication by the soviet Union.
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Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
Yep.Laurance.Robinson wrote: ↑02 Dec 2019, 19:59But there is certainly enough circumstantial evidence to draw a conclusion that the event wasn't committed by Finland and was a fabrication by the soviet Union.
I had thought that the Soviet staged finnish artillery fire and the four Soviet KIA and nine WIA claim was a sort of Stalin era thing.
Regards, Juha
Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
First, I don't think there is enough circumstantial or non-circumstantial evidences. Second, I don't think that there is enough factual basis to exclude "Finnish" version. I would give 10% to a probability that the thing was committed by some fellows on the Finnish side. Finally, the entire question "who made the shots" is not particularly important, because the answer doesn't change practically anything in our knowledge.Laurance.Robinson wrote: ↑02 Dec 2019, 19:59But there is certainly enough circumstantial evidence to draw a conclusion that the event wasn't committed by Finland and was a fabrication by the soviet Union.
Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
Had this really been the case, I assume that during the 80 years that has passed at least some shreds of circumstantial evidence would have surfaced. As it hasn't, I would say the probability is close to 0%.Art wrote: ↑02 Dec 2019, 22:33First, I don't think there is enough circumstantial or non-circumstantial evidences. Second, I don't think that there is enough factual basis to exclude "Finnish" version. I would give 10% to a probability that the thing was committed by some fellows on the Finnish side. Finally, the entire question "who made the shots" is not particularly important, because the answer doesn't change practically anything in our knowledge.Laurance.Robinson wrote: ↑02 Dec 2019, 19:59But there is certainly enough circumstantial evidence to draw a conclusion that the event wasn't committed by Finland and was a fabrication by the soviet Union.
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Re: Proofs for Soviet point of view about shelling of Mainila.
If I remember correctly, a border incident also occurred with Estonia in 1939 or 1940.
It seems inherently unlikely that tiny states such as Finland (pop. 3,700) or Estonia (pop. 1,100,000), neither of which had military alliances with anyone else, would unilaterally provoke the USSR (pop. 169,000,000) in 1939.
The onus is very much on the Soviet side to provide proof.
Cheers,
Sid
It seems inherently unlikely that tiny states such as Finland (pop. 3,700) or Estonia (pop. 1,100,000), neither of which had military alliances with anyone else, would unilaterally provoke the USSR (pop. 169,000,000) in 1939.
The onus is very much on the Soviet side to provide proof.
Cheers,
Sid