Airbattles in Karelian Istmus 20 June 1944

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tramonte
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Airbattles in Karelian Istmus 20 June 1944

Post by tramonte » 05 Sep 2020 09:59

Overclaiming by individuals can occur when more than one person attacks the same target and each claims its destruction, when an aircraft appears to be no longer in a flying condition but manages to land safely, or when an individual simply wishes to claim unjustified credit for downing an opponent. In some instances of combat over friendly territory a damaged aircraft may have been claimed as an aerial victory by its opponent while the aircraft was later salvaged and restored to an operational status. In this situation the loss may not appear in the records while the claim remains confirmed.

With this basic fact remembering we now have good reasons to guess quite high Finnish/German overclaiming during very intense air war during critical day of 20 June 1944 in Karelian Isthmus when Soviet forces managed to take Vyborg (Viipuri). During that day pilots of FAF have total 49 claims and pilots of Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey 9. Total 58 + unknown (?) numbers by Finnish AA-units.

20 June 1944, morning:

time..............place...........(pilot).............claim

02.45–03.45 Someri...............( Leo Ahokas)......La-5

7.10–7.30 Ristiniemi...................(Palm).......... Il-2
7.10–8.00 Ristiniemi-Tiurinsaari.....(Juutilainen).. 2 x Yak-9 and 2 x Il-4
7.10–8.05 Ristiniemi.................. ( Kirjonen).... Il-2
7.10–8.05 Ristiniemi.................. ( Fräntilä)..... Il-2 1
7.10–8.10 Vatnuori.................... (Leino)....... Yak-9
07.15–07.50 Saarenpää............(Keskinummi).... LaGG-3
07.15-8.00 Koivisto...............(Wind)............ 2 x La-5
07.15–08.00 Koivisto-Seiskari......(Laitinen)....... Yak-9

08.30–09.20 Vyborg-Römpötti....( Puro)............ Il-2, La-5 and LaGG-3
08.30–09.30 Hanhijoki..............(Pyötsiä)........ Airacobra
08.30–09.40 Oinala............... (Lampi)........ Airacobra
08.30–09.40 Vatnuori-Koivisto......(Halonen)..... Jak-1 and LaGG-3
8.50–10.00 Kämäränjärvi............. (Länsivaara).. Yak-9
8.50–9.50 Mieltyjärvi................. (Tani).......... Airacobra
8.50–9.50 Nöykkijärvi................ (R. Valli)...... Yak-9
08.55–09.55 Koivisto-Seiskari.......(Wind)........ Pe-2 and 2 x Yak-9
9.00–10.00 Perkjärvi.................. (Alakoski).... Airacobra

Forenoon...

10.40–11.25 Säiniö-Kämärä.........(Laitinen)..... 2 x Il-2
10.40–11.25 Karhusuo...............(Vesa).......... 2 x Il-2
10.45–11.45 Heinjoki-Leipäsuo....( Myllylä)....... 2 x La-5
10.45–11.45 Leipäsuo...............(Tuomikoski)... U-2
10.45–12.00 Kämärä station........( Lampi)........ Il-2 and La-5
Last edited by tramonte on 05 Sep 2020 11:33, edited 5 times in total.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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Re: Airbattles in Karelian Istmus 20 June 1944

Post by tramonte » 05 Sep 2020 10:09

20 June 1944, midday :

time..............place.................(pilot).............claim
12.55............91 412: at 3.500 m ( Quarda)......... Yak-9
13.10...........81 290: at 3.800 m ( Quarda).......... Airacobra

20 June 1944, afternoon :

time..............place............................(pilot)...................claim
15.40.............91 322: at 5.000 m..........(Arnecke)............Airacobra
15.36........... 81 466: at 1.600 m...........(Rudorffer)..........Airacobra
16.00–17.15.... Vyborg........................(Metsola)............ Airacobra
16.22........... 81 456: at 1.000 m............( Rudorffer)........Il-2
16.24........... 81 462: at 1.000 m............(Rudorffer)..........Il-2
17.35........... 91 151: at 1.100 m............(Schlomann).......Airacobra
17.35........... 91 323: at 500 m..............(Thyben)............Airacobra
17.47........... 91 353: at 400 m..............(Koller) ...........Airacobra

(all but Metsola are Luftwaffe pilots with Fw-190 aircraft, Metsola flying with bf-109 G)
Last edited by tramonte on 05 Sep 2020 10:37, edited 1 time in total.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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Re: Airbattles in Karelian Istmus 20 June 1944

Post by tramonte » 05 Sep 2020 10:26

20 June 1944, evening:

time..............place...............(pilot)................claim
17.50–19.00 Säiniö................. (Luukkanen)......Pe-2
17.50–19.00 Vyborg................ (Juutilainen)....Airacobra
19.05–20.15 Punnusjärvi.......... (Vesa)............Airacobra
19.05–20.20 Lake of Muolaa.........(Laitinen).........Pe-2
19.15–20.15 Lake of Muolaa.........(Halonen)........ La-5 ja Pe-2
19.15–20.25 Muolaanjärvi......... (Nyman)........ La-5
19.15–20.35 Heinjoki/ Valkjärvi...( Puro).......... Airacobra and Pe-2
19.25–20.30 Vyborg..................(Salomies)..... Pe-2
20.10–20.50 Lake of Muolaa......... (Suhonen).... 2 x Airacobra
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front


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tramonte
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Re: Airbattles in Karelian Istmus 20 June 1944

Post by tramonte » 07 Sep 2020 19:24

Mangrove wrote:
06 Sep 2020 20:59

There were 9 claims by Finnish anti-aircraft units operating in the Karelian Isthmus on 20 June 1944. From a Finnish Air Force document dated 9 November 1944:

1) IL-2 by 7. Kevyt rannikkoilmatorjuntapatteri between Ristiniemi and Tuppura at 7.35 a.m.
2) IL-2 by 103. Raskas ilmatorjuntapatteri near Viipuri at 11.30 a.m.
3) IL-2 by 15. Kevyt ilmatorjuntapatteri near Suurpero / Viipuri at 11.40 a.m.
4) IL-2 by 15. Kevyt ilmatorjuntapatteri near Suurpero / Viipuri at 2.35 p.m.

5) IL-2 by 62. Kevyt ilmatorjuntapatteri near Kuukauppi bridge at Antrea at 3.40 p.m.
6) IL-2 by 5. Kevyt ilmatorjuntajaos near Antrea at 3.40 p.m.
7) IL-2 by 11. Kevyt ilmatorjuntapatteri from Noskua / Antrea towards the front lines at 3.42 p.m.
8) IL-2 by 16. Kevyt ilmatorjuntapatteri 4-5 kilometres south of Tienhaara / Viipuri at 4.31 p.m.
9) P-39 by 58. Kevyt ilmatorjuntapatteri at 5.40 p.m. Pilot bailed out circa 3 kilometres south of Kavantsaari / Antrea.
Thanks, Mangrove. So we have total claims of 67 aircraft:

- 17 Airacobra ( 1 AA-units, 6 Germans, 10 Finns)
- 10 Yak-9/1 ( 1 German pilot, 9 Finns)
- 9 La-5 (all Finnish pilots)
- 3 LaGG-3 (all Finnish pilots)

- 19 Il-2 (8 AA-units, 2 Germans, 9 Finns)
- 6 Pe-2 (all Finnish pilots)
- 2 Il-4 (all Finnish pilots
- 1 U-2 ( Finnish pilot claim)

And now - i'm very interesting to know what are Soviet primary sources suggesting about these claims.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

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