Finnish T-37 and T-38 numbers wanted

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korup
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Finnish T-37 and T-38 numbers wanted

Post by korup » 02 Jun 2021 20:57

Hi,
I am looking for evidence numbers’ blocks of Finnish T-37 and T-38 amphibious tanks. Thanks in advance.
Paweł
Cheers,
Pawel

korup
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Location: PL

Re: Finnish T-37 and T-38 numbers wanted

Post by korup » 04 Jun 2021 11:22

Just to complete the information here is what I have after checking SA-Kuva only. T-37A numbers: R-209, -210, -232, -234, -237. T-38 numbers: R-206, -216, -219, -245, -246. That's it, though I am not sure have I found and identified all photos.
Cheers,
Pawel

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JTV
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Re: Finnish T-37 and T-38 numbers wanted

Post by JTV » 04 Jun 2021 17:51

17th of June 1941 inventory list lists following:
T-37: R-200 - R-202, R-207 - R-215, R-221 - R-226, R-228, R-230 - R-235, R-237 - R-240.
T-38: R-203 - R-206, R-216 - R220, R227, R-229, R-236, R-241.
But that is obviously not a complete list and more vehicles were added at later date.

T-38 amphibious tanks used by Signal Company of Armour Division: R-243, R-244, R-245 and R-246.
Info based on inventory lists dated 18th of January and 17th of March 1944.

The particular numbers used to identify individual vehicles are usually simply referred as R-numbers and introduced in late 1930's along acquisition of Vickers 6-ton tanks from UK. According The Finnish Armoured Vehicles 1918 - 1997 by Muikku and Purhonen page 181 captured T-37 and T-38 amphibious tanks covered the sequence of R-numbers from R-200 to R-246.

Summer of 1943 Ps-number system was introduced, the Ps-numbers allocated for amphibious tanks were:
- T-37A: Ps-355
- T-38: Ps-356
- T-38-34 and T-38-KV (*): Ps-601 and Ps-602
(*) Antitank-training vehicles (built like look T-34 or KV-1).

Maybe it is just me, but I find "evidence number" somewhat poor translation unless we are talking about crime scene. :-)

korup
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Location: PL

Re: Finnish T-37 and T-38 numbers wanted

Post by korup » 04 Jun 2021 22:58

Many thanks JTV, you're great. As for "evidence"...well I don't work for the police or something of that sort. The word "evidence" has another meaning, it's a number the item was evidenced with in some inventory, or simply listed in some evidence. This is not a case of a translation, whatsoever. I simply don't know how to properly name these numbers or codes. A registrations? Tactical numbers? Anyway, thanks again for your help.
Cheers,
Pawel

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JTV
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Re: Finnish T-37 and T-38 numbers wanted

Post by JTV » 05 Jun 2021 07:21

korup wrote:
04 Jun 2021 22:58
Many thanks JTV, you're great. As for "evidence"...well I don't work for the police or something of that sort. The word "evidence" has another meaning, it's a number the item was evidenced with in some inventory, or simply listed in some evidence. This is not a case of a translation, whatsoever. I simply don't know how to properly name these numbers or codes. A registrations? Tactical numbers? Anyway, thanks again for your help.
Registration number or ID-number might be good translations. The best widely used equivalent to R-numbers is probably license plate, which may in fact be the reason why they started with "R-". The Finnish term for license plate is rekisterikilpi (literally translated: registration plate) and for the markings on it rekisterinumero (literally: registration number). The basic concept seems to have been that R-number (and later Ps. number) was a permanent identification number used for identifying individual vehicle.

Captured armoured vehicles were repaired in Panssarikeskuskorjaamo (Armour Centre Repair Shop - the main Finnish repair facility armoured vehicles) in town of Varkaus before being handed over to tank units. As mentioned there was a sequence of numbers starting from R-200 reserved for (captured) amphibious tanks - hence R-200 was probably either the first or in one of the first batch of amphibious tanks to have its repairs completed and leave the facility, while R-246 would have either been either the last of amphibious tanks repaired there or at least in the last batch of amphibious tanks that the repair facility handed over to tank corps.

In comparison tactical numbers were not permanent because they were indicators of the the tank unit in which the tank was used. Hence if a tank was transferred to another company or platoon its tactical number would be changed. For example tactical number 531 would indicate that it was platoon leader's tank in 3rd Platoon of 5th Company.

korup
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Posts: 78
Joined: 23 Dec 2014 02:15
Location: PL

Re: Finnish T-37 and T-38 numbers wanted

Post by korup » 06 Jun 2021 23:39

Thank you very much for this explanation. It is good to learn something new what can not be found, at least due to language barrier.
Cheers,
Pawel

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