The symbol of the Lotta Svärd organization

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Daniel L
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The symbol of the Lotta Svärd organization

#1

Post by Daniel L » 15 Jan 2004, 01:16

Can anyone enlighten me about what the four flowers in the Lotta Svärd organization represents?

Best regards/ Daniel

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Sotka
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#2

Post by Sotka » 15 Jan 2004, 17:43

All I know that symbol is "Heraldic rose", known used since 1200s around europe.

Sorry thats all I know.


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Daniel L
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#3

Post by Daniel L » 15 Jan 2004, 18:22

Thanks Sotka, anyone who has some more information? Why are there four roses?

Best regards/ Daniel

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Juha Hujanen
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#4

Post by Juha Hujanen » 15 Jan 2004, 20:12

The lotta symbol was designated by artist Eric Vasström in 1921.The symbol ,blue swazika with 4 roses came most likely from "naiskagaali" organization.

They were a womans organization founded early on 1900 century and they practised passive resistance against Russians and were pro-indepence.They collected money to resistance and for education and their money collection boxes had a legend "lain ja isänmaan puolesta" (for law and fatherland) and they were sealed with swazika seal.

Hope this helps.

/Juha
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Tapani K.
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#5

Post by Tapani K. » 15 Jan 2004, 20:27

Juha, may I ask what are your sources here. I mean, I have always thought that it was only count von Rosen who brought the swastika to Finnish national symbology. Of course, if the swastika had been used earlier, it would make it kind of obvious to adopt the blue swastika as presented by the count.

regards,
Tapani k.

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Juha Hujanen
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#6

Post by Juha Hujanen » 15 Jan 2004, 20:53

Hi Tapani

My source is Vilho Lukkarinen-Suomen Lotat,pages 52-53.

Intrestigly Akseli Gallen-Kallela was first asked to make symbol but for some reason Vasström's work was chosed.Mayby it had something to do with that fact that Lolan Vasström was member of selection board.I don't think that same lastname is just coincidence :wink:

/Juha

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#7

Post by Tapani K. » 16 Jan 2004, 09:36

Thank you, Juha.

I think I have read that book but missed the bit on swastika. Must check it. Thanks again for the info.

regards,
Tapani K.

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Daniel L
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#8

Post by Daniel L » 17 Jan 2004, 13:42

Thanks for clearing this up. I'm still wondering what the four roses stands for.

Best regards/ Daniel

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Juha Hujanen
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#9

Post by Juha Hujanen » 21 Jan 2004, 17:57

Hello Daniel

I did a bit look for that "rose thing" and it seems that they don't have any profound meaning.

In Finland coat of arms is lion with 9 silver roses.Some belive that they mean 9 Finnish provinces but most likely they are just for decorations purposes.The heraltic roses for Lotta symbol are propably taken from Finnish coat of arms without any deeper meening.

Hope this helps

/Juha
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Daniel L
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#10

Post by Daniel L » 21 Jan 2004, 18:54

Thank you very much Juha! :)

Best regards/ Daniel

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Hanski
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#11

Post by Hanski » 24 Jan 2004, 19:04

For the Finnish Coat of Arms, see http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/english/vaakeng.html

My best guess about the four heraldic roses in the Lotta Svärd insignia is that to graphically decorate a swastika, any other number simply doesn't fit! How else could they be placed?

The heraldic rose appears as a graphic element in various Finnish official contexts, like in the current logo of the National Insurance Institution, or flags of various organisations.

In Finnish military rank insignia, golden heraldic roses in collar plates designate officer ranks, from Second Lieutenant to Captain with a smaller and from Major to Colonel with a larger diameter. If I remember correctly, the Suojeluskunta (the voluntary organisation for national defence 1917-1945) had silver heraldic roses for the respective ranks.

See http://www2.mil.fi/varusmies/arvomerkki/index_en.dsp

During the WWII, there were no such ranks as Senior Lieutenant and Brigadier General (the collar plates of the remaining Generals had each one lion less). And of course, there were the ranks of Field Marshal and Marshal of Finland, which only Mannerheim ever held, with crossed batons in the collar plates as insignia.

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#12

Post by Mikko H. » 25 Jan 2004, 20:47

During the WWII, there were no such ranks as Senior Lieutenant and Brigadier General (the collar plates of the remaining Generals had each one lion less). And of course, there were the ranks of Field Marshal and Marshal of Finland, which only Mannerheim ever held, with crossed batons in the collar plates as insignia.
To be exact, both sotamarsalkka (Field Marshal) and Suomen marsalkka (Marshal of Finland) were officially not military ranks but honorary titles -- but in practice they were treated like military ranks.

BTW, does anybody know a good source for the Suojeluskunta rank insignia? I have no clue how Suojeluskunta denoted the officer ranks.

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Harri
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#13

Post by Harri » 25 Jan 2004, 20:54

hmononen wrote:If I remember correctly, the Suojeluskunta (the voluntary organisation for national defence 1917-1945) had silver heraldic roses for the respective ranks.
Hanski, you don't remember correctly. Civil Guard used its own ranks badges, different from Army.

Silver roses were used by reserve officers during Winter War: in practice officers who used small roses i.e. Reserve 2nd Lieutenants, Reserve Lieutenants and Reserve Captains. I have an idea that all officers who had been in regular service (retired or resigned ones) used always golden roses? Because reserve officers managed better than expected during Winter War Marshal Mannerheim proposed that all officers should use similar kind of golden roses and the word "reserve" was to be dropped off from their official rank title. This proposal was IIRC accepted in spring 1941 and thereafter all Finnish commissioned officers have used golden roses and reserve and regular officers have been equal.

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#14

Post by Hanski » 26 Jan 2004, 19:20

Thank you for the correction, Harri. I was certain there were those with silver roses, but I confused the reserve officers with Suojeluskunta.

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