Hello, I'm not Tero, this is Harri.
(Quotes from Aleksei22's message.)
. wrote:On the Soviet data, during Winter war Finland was supplied 376 planes, on ones Finnish - 225.
I don't quite understand from where these figures have been found but Finnish State Aircraft Factory (VL) didn't produce any new aircraft during the Winter War. It only repaired damaged planes.
Just prior to Winter War Finland received the following planes:
3 pcs - Asja J 6A/B Jaktfalken (donated from Sweden)
2 pcs - Bristol Bulldog IIA (donated from Sweden)
= 5 pcs
During Winter War Finland received the following planes:
35 pcs - FIAT G.50 (bought from Italy)
30 pcs - Gloster Gladiator II (10 donated and 20 bought from Britain)
30 pcs - Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406 (donated from France)
24 pcs - Bristol Blenheim I and IV (bought from Britain)
12 pcs - Hawker Hurricane I (bought from Britain)
3 pcs - Fokker C.VE (donated from Sweden)
2 pcs - Koolhoven F.K.52 (privately financed in Sweden, donated)
1 pcs - Douglas DC-2 (privately financed in Sweden, donated)
= 137 pcs
Received mainly after Winter War:
32 pcs - Gloster Gauntlet II (donated by South African Federation)
44 pcs - Brewster B-239 (bought from USA)
17 pcs - Westland Lysander I (bought from Britain)
6 pcs - Caudron-Renault C.R.714 (donated from France)
1 pcs - Fokker F.VIII (financed in Sweden, donated)
= 100
TOTAL = 242 aircraft (if I have counted correctly)
A few individual planes are missing from this list but nothing significant. Not all planes although arrived in Finland (they were either damaged or missed en route to Finland).
Soviet Air Force supplied Finnish Air Force (FAF) kindly with repairable or almost intact planes. During Winter War FAF received one Tupolev DM-3M bomber and five Polikarpov I-15bis fighters.
. wrote:Sweden has given to Finland whole wing"Aviaflotilia-19" with Swedish pilots. It consists from 17 aircrafts: 12 fighters Gloucester J8
"Gladiator" Mk.l, 4 bombers Howker "Heart" e-4C and one transport
plane. On January, 11, 1940 this flotilla has arrived to Finland.
The Finnish command has assign it designation LeR-19. She acted
the north of the country, in Laplandia where was based on
frozen lake Kemi.
The main base of Swedish F 19 was at Kemi (Veitsiluoto) on the ice of the sea, not lake.
Swedes had a total of 12 Gloster Gladiator I (J 8A) fighters, five Hawker Hart (B 4) light bomber / reconnaisance planes (fifth was received later), and three transport or liaison planes.
. wrote:In January, 1940 in airshelfs LeR-4 the first English
fighters "Gladiator" began to arrive. Besides with that Swedish pilots
used "Gladiators" since January, 11. 1940 the in airgroup
LLv-19.
LeR 4 (Flying Regiment 4) was a bomber regiment. I didn't have fighters, only Bristol Blenheim bombers during Winter War. (Neither during Continuation War it had fighters.)
. wrote:Besides Swedes delivered three fighters "Jak-falk" J-6A and two fighters Bristol "Bulldog" Mk. II, three scouts Fokker CV-a,
two scouts Koolhoven FK-52, one transport plane Douglas DC-2.
Jaktfalkens (or "Jaktfalks"?) and Bulldogs were obsolete planes intended and used for training fighter pilots. Their designation was "fighter trainer" in Finland. The other mentioned planes were privately financed in Sweden. Koolhoven's were the two prototypes of that model bought from Holland (using the privately collected money).
Donated Fokker C.VEs recon planes were used in combat missions in LLv.16 (Flying Squadron 16) although they were of older model than Finnish Fokker C.VEs.
. wrote:On the Soviet data, during Winter war the Finnland has
lost 362 machines. Finns assert, that 67 machines was lost
from which only 21 has been brought down in air fights .
Serious damages have received 69 Finnish planes.
304 pilots were lost, 90 were missing and 105 is wounded.
Official confirmed Finnish records:
During Winter War Finnish Air Force lost 45 planes in combat and 16 planes in accidents (= 61). A total of 35 planes were badly damaged, six of them in aerial combat. FAF lost (killed or missed in action) a total of 54 (combat) + 21 (accidents) = 75 pilots (incl. all crew members).
Sources (for example):
Kalevi Keskinen and Kari Stenman:
Ilmavoimat talvisodassa - The Finnish Air Force in the Winter War, 1989
Veli Pernaa: Ilmavoimien historiasarja III: Karjalan lennoston historia 1918 - 1980
(FAF History Series III: The History of the Karelian Air Command 1918 -1980), 1997
. wrote:As we see, figures are seriously inconsistent, here is obvious that both partiespreffered to "distort cards" . For example, if we trust
Finns - the only one (1) brought down plane assosiated with 6 pilots
killed (KIA) and MIA. In fact typical crew-size of the majority of the
Finnish planes was 1-2 pilot(s), the only "Blenheim"crew consists from
3 pilots. Did anybody has not jumped out with a parachute from
damaged aircraft????
Sure. I don't know of which case this is telling about? Must I show you the whole list of lost planes and their crews?
. wrote:Due to deliveries from the West, the Finnish Air Forces at the
last day of W war ( despite of losses ) totaled 196 warplanes,
including 112 ready-for-use, that is it is more, than on
November, 30, 1939 (115 ).
The idea is basically correct. On 30.11.1939 FAF had 115 combat planes in flying order and on 15.3.1940 134 (including Swedes of F 19).
Source:
Atso Haapanen:
Suomen ilmavoimien hävittäjähankinnat 1918 - 1945
(Fighter Deliveries of Finnish Air Force 1918 - 1945), 2002
I'd forget this source.
. wrote:From other countries considered with understanding to our needs - it is necessary to name
first of all Sweden which has supply us 80000 rifles, 500 units of the
automatic weapon, 85 anti-tank guns, 112 field howitzers,
104 antiaircraft guns, 500000 rifle cartridges, 300000 artillery shells,
25 planes, and as gasoline and the various equipment.
( Mannerheim Memoirs see pic. )
Correct I think?
Aleksei22 wrote:Do you mean that none of this weapons wasnt reswapped within Sweden-Germany agreement ????
We all expect that you'd prove that, because this "reswapping" was your claim.
Aleksei22 wrote:Do you mean that swedes supplied Finland with wasted second-hand spare-parts from own mil. arsenal ????
Exactly - and not just that: also brand-new excellent stuff straight from their factories.
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Still no proves of the hidden origin of Winter War... we all are waiting.