Start of the WINTER WAR / Mainila shots

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Aleksei22
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#31

Post by Aleksei22 » 19 Aug 2004, 14:55

Tiwaz,

Are you TopSpeed ???

Thank you.

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#32

Post by Topspeed » 19 Aug 2004, 15:06

Aleksei,

Sorry I don't have it with me, but seems that that binkerton link you provided is full off shortened "official truths" which are contradictory as Hanski previously said.

Here brinkster link:

http://harikumar.brinkster.net/Communis ... WAR90.html

Juke T aka topspeed out !
Last edited by Topspeed on 19 Aug 2004, 15:13, edited 2 times in total.


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Tiwaz
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#33

Post by Tiwaz » 19 Aug 2004, 15:06

Aleksei, can't you provide similar evidence you demand from everyone else to support single one of your claims?

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Marcus
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#34

Post by Marcus » 19 Aug 2004, 17:36

Aleksei22 wrote:Tiwaz,

Are you TopSpeed ???

Thank you.
This is a forum, everyone is welcome to respond.

/Marcus

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Juha Hujanen
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#35

Post by Juha Hujanen » 19 Aug 2004, 18:05

Very interesting article of "Mainila shots" in Russian language:

http://www.rkka.ru/analys/mainila/mainila.htm#b8

For those (like me) who don't speak Russian:

http://world.altavista.com/

Of Notes:

http://www.eleves.ens.fr/home/sray/hist ... index.html

Cheers/Juha

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#36

Post by Topspeed » 19 Aug 2004, 19:40

Here is one soviet testimony of the incident:
Marshal Kirill Meretskov* confirms that it was the Finns who began hostilities:
"The reckless leaders of bourgeois Finland involved their people in a dangerous political gamble . . . The Finnish leaders . . . were encouraged by the promises of the imperialist powers to assist them with troops and equipment. . .
The Moscow proposal was rejected and our frontier guards received replies in the form of shots. .
On November 26 (1939 -- Ed.) I received an urgent report that the Finns had opened artillery fire on Soviet frontier guards near the village of Mainila, killing four and wounding nine men. . Instructions came to prepare a counter-attack. I was given a week to make ready, but in effect the time was reduced to four days, because Finnish detachments crossed the frontier at several points and infiltrated groups of saboteurs behind our lines. . . . At 0800 hours on November 30th regular Red Army forces launched operations to repel the anti-Soviet actions and the Soviet-Finnish War was on".
(K. A. Meretskov: 'Serving the People'; Moscow; 1971; p. 102, 103, 108-09).
Funny that finnish frontier guards saw no signs of casualties ? What were the 13 poor soviets soldiers doing on the middle of a field on that very cold and windy day just 800 meters of the border ?

Also from the brinkster source, with several "stalinistic" versions.

regards,

Juke T

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Marcus
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#37

Post by Marcus » 19 Aug 2004, 20:58

A question from Aleksei22 that he agreed was of no relevance to the discussion was removed.

/Marcus

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#38

Post by Aleksei22 » 20 Aug 2004, 19:54

Hello, all
Russian text

9 (1939) ноября состоялась последнее заседание делегаций, в ходе которого стало ясно,
что стороны остались при соем мнении и 13 ноября (1939)
финская делегация покинула москву. При пересечении финской
делегацией границы - пограничная стража открыла огонь по советским пограничникам.
М.I. Meltjuhov, M-2002, "Stalin's missed chance", p 121.

.........



Software Translated

On November, 9 ( 1939 ) last session has taken place during which it became clear,
that the all parties have remained at own opinion and on November, 13 (1939) Finnish
delegation has left Moscow to Helsinki. At crossing of border (by the Finnish delegation)
Finnish boundary-guard has opened fire on the Soviet frontier guards.


What is it ????

Reality or "russo-imperialismo" - propaganda ????


Thank you.


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Marcus
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#39

Post by Marcus » 20 Aug 2004, 20:05

Aleksei22,

Please provide proper credit (at least author and title) for the scans.

/Marcus

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#40

Post by Aleksei22 » 20 Aug 2004, 20:14

Marcus Wendel wrote:Aleksei22,

Please provide proper credit (at least author and title) for the scans.

/Marcus
Hello, Marcus


[attachment removed by webmaster]

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Harri
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#41

Post by Harri » 20 Aug 2004, 20:17

On November, 9 ( 1939 ) last session has taken place during which it became clear, that the all parties have remained at own opinion and on November, 13 (1939) Finnish delegation has left Moscow to Helsinki. At crossing of border (by the Finnish delegation) Finnish boundary-guard has opened fire on the Soviet frontier guards.
Aleksei22: And what happened after "Finnish boundary-guard" had opened fire? Against whom that fire was opened? How many victims there were? Tell the names of all Soviet victims. Who was the shooter?

English translation is enough if the source is clearly mentioned (the official forum language is English, and English only).

Has someone else heard of that "incident"?

----

On the other hand: what this case has to do with the "Mainila incident"? :roll:
Last edited by Harri on 20 Aug 2004, 20:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Marcus
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#42

Post by Marcus » 20 Aug 2004, 20:17

Aleksei22,

Again: Stop abusing the attachment feature. Write what you want to say instead of adding large attachments.

Any further abuse will lead to loss of access to that feature.

/Marcus

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#43

Post by Aleksei22 » 20 Aug 2004, 20:29

Marcus Wendel wrote:Aleksei22,

Again: Stop abusing the attachment feature. Write what you want to say instead of adding large attachments.

Any further abuse will lead to loss of access to that feature.

/Marcus
OKed.

М.I. Meltjuhov, M-2002, "Stalin's missed chance", p 121.

as it noted at first.

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#44

Post by Sami_K » 21 Aug 2004, 00:43

Aleksei22 wrote: What is it ????

Reality or "russo-imperialismo" - propaganda ????
The latter. :D

No let me think.... the train carrying the Finnish delegation crosses the border river along the bridge... then the Finnish border guards open fire on their Soviet counterparts on the other side of the river.... ....riiight. :roll:

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#45

Post by Topspeed » 21 Aug 2004, 10:52

Aleksei,

I wonder how many of these incredible stories of finns attacking or starting a rampant shooting there is ?

So there is no official data of the Mainila incident in its right content in whole Russia ?

Somehow I think that is a shame in a country where people seem to read a lot and are considered as intellectuals.

regards,

Juke T

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