Dear all,
About the comemmoration ceremony of Tali-Ihantala battles
2nd of July, was any of u there? I heard that there was about 3000
Finns, or so. Does anybody have pictures from there? From that event?
Its too bad its not celebrated like D-day, although.. for Finlands
independence it is very important battle.
Regards,
-Pete
The comemmoration ceremony of Tali-Ihantala battles
I was there,
pictures will be posted soon. It was really hot and it was hard for veterans, so I only spoke to a couple of them.
There were indeed a lot of people, all Finnish TV channels, radio stations and newspapers were present. Too bad there were no Russian veterans of the battle invited.
with best regards,
Bair
pictures will be posted soon. It was really hot and it was hard for veterans, so I only spoke to a couple of them.
There were indeed a lot of people, all Finnish TV channels, radio stations and newspapers were present. Too bad there were no Russian veterans of the battle invited.
with best regards,
Bair
I was almost sure you would have been there. Too bad - although I don't live very far away from Viipuri or Tali / Ihantala area - I had no change to visit there.
I think the reason why Soviet veterans were not invited was the unofficial nature of the event. Russian or Finnish states had no role in arrangements. Still there were at least 100% more people than was expected. Someone said in the newspaper that if similar kind of event had been ten years ago there would have been at least 10.000 Finns (and much more veterans also)!!
Also the high age of veterans (well over 80 years) probably was one reason too. It was written that this was most likely it was the last chance when veterans could see their old combat area and the last time such an event will be arranged. Once again we can only say: "too late", but due to the historical reasons we all know this was probably the earliest possible date to arrange anything like that.
---
Well, actually someone proposed about ten years ago that all Finns who had lived in ceded areas and their descendants should once go to Karelian Isthmus at the same time. It would be interesting to see what would happen if all more than half a million Karelian Finns were there again!!! I'm looking forward to being there too then...
I think the reason why Soviet veterans were not invited was the unofficial nature of the event. Russian or Finnish states had no role in arrangements. Still there were at least 100% more people than was expected. Someone said in the newspaper that if similar kind of event had been ten years ago there would have been at least 10.000 Finns (and much more veterans also)!!
Also the high age of veterans (well over 80 years) probably was one reason too. It was written that this was most likely it was the last chance when veterans could see their old combat area and the last time such an event will be arranged. Once again we can only say: "too late", but due to the historical reasons we all know this was probably the earliest possible date to arrange anything like that.
---
Well, actually someone proposed about ten years ago that all Finns who had lived in ceded areas and their descendants should once go to Karelian Isthmus at the same time. It would be interesting to see what would happen if all more than half a million Karelian Finns were there again!!! I'm looking forward to being there too then...
Harri,
I only managed to speak to 2 Finnish veterans - they both said that this would be the last time they travel to the old battlefield, as the age is catching up with them.
anyway, here are the pictures...
the Russian monument at Portinhoikka road crossing.
the Finnish veterans are placing a wreath at the Russian monument
a Finnish Orthodox priest is making the traditional Russian prayer for the dead "Eternal memory" in Russian language
Finnish veterans are watching the ceremony
the crowd next to Ihantala monument
the veteran chore next to the monument. Flags of Finland, Russian Federation and Finnish units that fought in Tali-Ihantala battle, were placed at the monument for the time of the memorial event.
the monument to Ihantala after the ceremony.
with best regards,
Bair
I only managed to speak to 2 Finnish veterans - they both said that this would be the last time they travel to the old battlefield, as the age is catching up with them.
anyway, here are the pictures...
the Russian monument at Portinhoikka road crossing.
the Finnish veterans are placing a wreath at the Russian monument
a Finnish Orthodox priest is making the traditional Russian prayer for the dead "Eternal memory" in Russian language
Finnish veterans are watching the ceremony
the crowd next to Ihantala monument
the veteran chore next to the monument. Flags of Finland, Russian Federation and Finnish units that fought in Tali-Ihantala battle, were placed at the monument for the time of the memorial event.
the monument to Ihantala after the ceremony.
with best regards,
Bair
-
Juha Tompuri
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 11563
- Joined: 11 Sep 2002, 21:02
- Location: Mylsä
Thank you Bair for the pictures:) Looks very nice,
maybe the Ihantala monument is a bit modest.
Carved in stone.
I really wish I could've visited that ceremony
too. I've never been to Russia, but I'd love
to visit there one of these days.
Oh, and I have an additional question..
Bair or some of the Finnish members would
any of you happen to know where Pien-Kallelova
is located? Very curious about this because
the place name came up on some papers I got
recently, And I couldn't locate it on any of
the maps.
Regards,
-Pete
maybe the Ihantala monument is a bit modest.
Carved in stone.
I really wish I could've visited that ceremony
too. I've never been to Russia, but I'd love
to visit there one of these days.
Oh, and I have an additional question..
Bair or some of the Finnish members would
any of you happen to know where Pien-Kallelova
is located? Very curious about this because
the place name came up on some papers I got
recently, And I couldn't locate it on any of
the maps.
Regards,
-Pete
Dear Juha,
here is translation of the text on the Russian monument:
"Fatherland has many books in stone, both books of sadness and eternal glory. Read one of them in granith here. There are many names here, many fallen are nameless. Their life on this earth was short but bright. They fell but they won."
Pay attention to the small metallic plates mounted into the side walls of the monument. Each of them carries about 100 names of Soviet soldiers fallen in Tali-Ihantala battle.
2Mek: I have no idea where Pien-Kallelova is. Judging from the name, it could be a very small place or even an individual farmer's house somewhere in the woods. In which area and in which context did you read about it?
with best regards,
Bair
here is translation of the text on the Russian monument:
"Fatherland has many books in stone, both books of sadness and eternal glory. Read one of them in granith here. There are many names here, many fallen are nameless. Their life on this earth was short but bright. They fell but they won."
Pay attention to the small metallic plates mounted into the side walls of the monument. Each of them carries about 100 names of Soviet soldiers fallen in Tali-Ihantala battle.
2Mek: I have no idea where Pien-Kallelova is. Judging from the name, it could be a very small place or even an individual farmer's house somewhere in the woods. In which area and in which context did you read about it?
with best regards,
Bair
Thanks anyways Bair and Hanski,
Admitted that the place name "Pien-Kallelova" in the papers I got
from War Archives is very unclear, it almost looks like it could say "Pien-
kakelova" in the section where there's listed the battles the person took
part in. But I did a search in the File of fallen soldiers during 2nd world
war in Finland website, and they have at least 9 people there that had
fallen in a place called Pien-kallelova.
If I had to guess where it is, I'd say somewhere close to Valkeasaari (Beloostrov).
Regards,
-Pete
Admitted that the place name "Pien-Kallelova" in the papers I got
from War Archives is very unclear, it almost looks like it could say "Pien-
kakelova" in the section where there's listed the battles the person took
part in. But I did a search in the File of fallen soldiers during 2nd world
war in Finland website, and they have at least 9 people there that had
fallen in a place called Pien-kallelova.
If I had to guess where it is, I'd say somewhere close to Valkeasaari (Beloostrov).
Regards,
-Pete
-
Juha Tompuri
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 11563
- Joined: 11 Sep 2002, 21:02
- Location: Mylsä
Thanks Bair.
About the Russian text on the Soviet monument:
About the photos. The man on the left in the center photo (with photo caption "Finnish veterans are watching the ceremony") is former Commander of the Finnish Defence Forces (FDF) General Jaakko Valtanen, one of the veterans too. I think he was perhaps the last officer in FDF service who had been in war. He retired in the 1980's.
----
About the name. I think it is correct. There were several Russian-like names in southern Karelian Isthmus because it was part of the hisotrical Ingermanland and there were also Russian villages. Note also that Finns were partly beyond old border on Soviet soil.
About the Russian text on the Soviet monument:
That does not sound typical boasting "Soviet product" at all. I would say the text is very beautiful compared to normal style, doesn't it? I noticed that it has many meanings, almost religious."Fatherland has many books in stone, both books of sadness and eternal glory. Read one of them in granith here. There are many names here, many fallen are nameless. Their life on this earth was short but bright. They fell but they won."
About the photos. The man on the left in the center photo (with photo caption "Finnish veterans are watching the ceremony") is former Commander of the Finnish Defence Forces (FDF) General Jaakko Valtanen, one of the veterans too. I think he was perhaps the last officer in FDF service who had been in war. He retired in the 1980's.
----
About the name. I think it is correct. There were several Russian-like names in southern Karelian Isthmus because it was part of the hisotrical Ingermanland and there were also Russian villages. Note also that Finns were partly beyond old border on Soviet soil.
Dear all,
yes Pien-Kallelovo sounds like a name from somewhere next to the old border. I will need to check the maps and ask people around before I can find out precisely where it is.
2 Harry: not all Soviet texts on monuments are boasting and over-patriotic. There are many nice and touching monuments around St Petersburg, with some nice texts. Of course there are a lot "eternal glory to heroes" Soviet standard phrases on monuments all over the place, but there are good ones as well.
BTW, when I listened to the songs and speeches during the ceremony at Ihantala, quite many phrases sounded close to ones we can hear in our Russian events - patriotism is patriotism regardless of the country.
with best regards,
Bair
yes Pien-Kallelovo sounds like a name from somewhere next to the old border. I will need to check the maps and ask people around before I can find out precisely where it is.
2 Harry: not all Soviet texts on monuments are boasting and over-patriotic. There are many nice and touching monuments around St Petersburg, with some nice texts. Of course there are a lot "eternal glory to heroes" Soviet standard phrases on monuments all over the place, but there are good ones as well.
BTW, when I listened to the songs and speeches during the ceremony at Ihantala, quite many phrases sounded close to ones we can hear in our Russian events - patriotism is patriotism regardless of the country.
with best regards,
Bair
Hey all,
But I like the modern development in relations,
we can talk about history and do research
together, and recently I think many Finns
are travelling to Russia, to see their old
homes, and old battlefields.
We can also place a wreath at Russian memorials,
and Russians can place a wreath on our
memorials, like some years ago Putin layed
a wreath at Mannerheims grave. Without having
to worry that its politically bad move.
Regards,
-Pete
Very true.Bair wrote:patriotism is patriotism regardless of the country.
But I like the modern development in relations,
we can talk about history and do research
together, and recently I think many Finns
are travelling to Russia, to see their old
homes, and old battlefields.
We can also place a wreath at Russian memorials,
and Russians can place a wreath on our
memorials, like some years ago Putin layed
a wreath at Mannerheims grave. Without having
to worry that its politically bad move.
Regards,
-Pete
