The Finnish occupation policy in Eastern Karelia 1941-1944.

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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Re: "All there is to it."

Post by Sami_K » 05 Jun 2003 14:48

LeoAU wrote: You do make a perfect sence on this one, or should I say a perfect excuse.
- It makes perfect sense because IT TOO had an effect on the high number of dead %-wise. And its the % which the Soviet's like to bring up, not the TOTAL number of dead (which is in the 17 million a drop in the bucket).

LeoAU wrote: I was always wondering what happened to those some 17mln Soviet citizens killed by German and Finnish and Co occupiers! Now I know, they would've died any way!
Given time, they would have, everybody dies. :)

More seriously, take into account that the normal death rate DOES exist on war time as well. Of course the problems with food supply DID increase it even further, of which a great part of the blame does indeed belong to the occupiers, but the whole Finnish nation was suffering from food problems. The Soviet Karelia was, in its southern parts, self-sustaining in terms of food (can't remember though was it just 'grains' or total food output) for 5 months per anno, and in its northern parts just 3 months.

Consider this: Had the Finns allowed the people to return homes (ie. many would've returned to empty & burnt villages), in a terrain where there are few roads and population density is low. There simply was NO logistical capacity in the Finnish Army of distributing the food supplies it had reserved for the local civilians, had they not been concentrated in some way.

Had there not been any 'concentration', the civilian casualties due to the effects of the war had been far more severe in the following (1941-1942) winter than they were.

LeoAU wrote:I'll take it as the acceptance of the fact that human Finnish soldiers do have some innocent blood on their hands.
I never said they didn't have, every side has, its ignorance to even try to say otherwise. Some just have more than others.

LeoAU wrote:So-called scorched earth tactics hardly existed back at that time!
If you don't know about it, blame your ignorance.

LeoAU wrote:Had USSR NOT feeled threathened by Finland and its potential allies (exactly how it happened - Finland joined Germany), there would be no Winter war etc.
This comment is SO ignorant, that I refrain from answering... do some basic research.

"Finland and its potential allies"? I see, so it was Finland which planned to invade and conquer USSR and managed to lure Hitler to be its ally in the attempt? :lol:
Really, you give the Finnish standing army of the pre-war years (app. 27,000 strong) WAY too much credit.

Seriously, you think 'how it happened' had nothing to do what the USSR did in 1939???

What? Kiss principle?
I think Tiwaz already covered that. :)

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Juha Hujanen
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Post by Juha Hujanen » 05 Jun 2003 18:32

Leo,staticts can be quite boring but have a try:

In August 41 from Finnish Army stock,the civilians of East-Karelia were given:400g rye flour,40g sugar and 10g salt/day.The rye flour ration was twice as much and sugar sowhat bigger than civilians in Finland were given.1/3 of grain were harvested from East-Karelia and 2/3 was transported from Finland.

Places for medical care in East-Karelia civilians were 1 place per 87 people.In Finland ratio was 1 per 156.

Mortality rate among adults in 43 in East-Karelia was 20.8/1000 people.In Finland ratio was in 1940 19/1000.Infant mortality in East-Karelia was 115/1000 and in Finland 88.3/1000.

And did you know that when Finnish troops withrew from East-Karelia in 44,there were no forced removal of civilian population.They were not even urged to move with Finnish troops but those who wanted to leave were told about possible hardships of movement.
Private property of civilians was left intackt and property or animals sold to civilians in dept was counted as property of civilians.No private apartments were burnt or mined and civilians were issued with 2 weeks rations,so that they would survive untill Red Army would feed them.In some places whole month of rations were given and hospitals,nursery homes etc. were given 2 weeks rations as well.

Have you heard of other rethreating army who issued rations to foreign civilians?


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