swatiskas in winter war
Besides swastika is an ancient symbol, saw once a pic of a multi-thousand year old Bactrian seremonial dagger adorned with tens of swastika symbols. When you think of it, swastika is a very basic shape, so it has been used in many situations. I personally would not be surprised if someone someday found a swastika cave painting!
That is almost correct. I don't remember that Germans would have donated anything else but 15 Dornier Do 17Z bombers and their bombs (it was a "gift" of Hermann Göring) late in 1941. Also a few maritime planes (Arados, Heinkels) were loaned for the Finns (I'm not sure if they were without any "rent"). Maybe there has been something else too, but almost everything we received from Germany was bought, even the second hand guns, aircraft and such. And the price was not usually even cheap - not to talk about it would have been nominal like sometimes has been stated.Tero wrote:The Germans did not DONATE anything. Everything was paid for in hard cash.Christian W. wrote:Also, the equipment that Germany donated to Finland during the Continuation War, tanks, planes, usually had swatiskas.
It is the irony of history that Finland didn't pay the to Germans alone, but the remaining part of our debt was paid to Soviets as part of our war indemnity program after the war.
----
About the swastikas in Finnish tanks. I have told something about it in the threat Hanski showed.
A book I have here states that most Norwegian planes captured by the Germans were given to Finland. These were old rather useless planes of the types M.F, built in Norway in the early 30`s. A few Caprioni biombers were also taken, but not sure if these found their way to Finland.I don't remember that Germans would have donated anything else but 15 Dornier Do 17Z bombers
Another interesting detail we once discussed was the guns of the Russian cruiser Alexandr Imperator III which were given (Or sold?) to the Finns from France. All these guns were seized by the Wehrmacht when they found the Finnish ship "Nina" in Bergen harbour. The 30,5cm guns were sent to Batterie Mirus in the British channel, while the 13 cm`s were used in batteries in Norway... Kind of double morale??
EE
These planes you probably mean were three Norwegian Høver M.F. 11 maritime recon planes. But as far as I know they all were flown to Finland on 8.6.1940 by Norwegian pilots and interned here. We had only these three planes of this type. We didn't have any Caproni bombers (I think Swedes had?).Erik E wrote:A book I have here states that most Norwegian planes captured by the Germans were given to Finland. These were old rather useless planes of the types M.F, built in Norway in the early 30`s. A few Caprioni biombers were also taken, but not sure if these found their way to Finland.
We had also one Norwegian-made Tiger-Moth and one Heinkel He 115A-2 float plane. They were also flown to Finland in June 1940 and interned. Additionally we bought 13 brand-new ex-Norwegian Curtiss Hawk 75A-6 fighters from Germany in the summer 1941.
At that stage of war Finland was not perhaps seen friendly enough towards Germany, so Germans took what they needed first.Erik E wrote:Another interesting detail we once discussed was the guns of the Russian cruiser Alexandr Imperator III which were given (Or sold?) to the Finns from France. All these guns were seized by the Wehrmacht when they found the Finnish ship "Nina" in Bergen harbour. The 30,5cm guns were sent to Batterie Mirus in the British channel, while the 13 cm`s were used in batteries in Norway... Kind of double morale??
Eventually France donated these guns. Germans later gave us other gun barrels to partly replace our loss. IIRC there were a few older 305 mm and some smaller calibre coastal guns. I'm not sure but I think certain "trades" with German "Siebel barges" and naval guns used later on our two gun boats had something to do with the loss of these "Bizerta guns".
Eventually we did receive eight of the original 305 mm [12"] "Bizerta guns" which were used to repair three ex-Soviet 305 mm railway guns which Soviets had partly destroyed at Hanko (Hangö) naval base and sunk them to the harbour of Hanko.
-
Juha Tompuri
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 11563
- Joined: 11 Sep 2002, 21:02
- Location: Mylsä
Hi all,
About the payments to Germany. Everything was indeed bought from Germany and had to be paid. However, when Finland jumped out from the German band wagon we owed Germany quite a lot of money for the deliveries. These German claims were to be transferred over to Soviet Union according to the peace terms (German property in Finland). Knowing this Ragnar Nordström counterfitted together with a German accountant the whole bookkeeping and wiped out the debt. It was thus never paid, not to Germany nor to Soviet Union. The amount that was thus spared was incidentally about the same as the damage that Germans caused in Lappland later on. I think this piece of information was given in the biography of Ragnar Nordström.
Best regards,
Jari
About the payments to Germany. Everything was indeed bought from Germany and had to be paid. However, when Finland jumped out from the German band wagon we owed Germany quite a lot of money for the deliveries. These German claims were to be transferred over to Soviet Union according to the peace terms (German property in Finland). Knowing this Ragnar Nordström counterfitted together with a German accountant the whole bookkeeping and wiped out the debt. It was thus never paid, not to Germany nor to Soviet Union. The amount that was thus spared was incidentally about the same as the damage that Germans caused in Lappland later on. I think this piece of information was given in the biography of Ragnar Nordström.
Best regards,
Jari
I forgot to mention the two Norwegian Fokker C.VD (made by Armens Flygeplanfabrik, Kjeller, Norway) which were also flown to Finland in June 1940 and interned as well. Planes were used in training or liaison duties.
I see. It is mentioned in almost every history book that our not yet paid German debt was paid to USSR. But I think you are correct with this.JariL wrote:These German claims were to be transferred over to Soviet Union according to the peace terms (German property in Finland). Knowing this Ragnar Nordström counterfitted together with a German accountant the whole bookkeeping and wiped out the debt. It was thus never paid, not to Germany nor to Soviet Union. The amount that was thus spared was incidentally about the same as the damage that Germans caused in Lappland later on. I think this piece of information was given in the biography of Ragnar Nordström.