Numbers of Soviet heavy equipment captured by Finns 1941

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Bair
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Numbers of Soviet heavy equipment captured by Finns 1941

Post by Bair » 28 Aug 2004 18:21

Hi there,

could not find any information (and I don't have Jatkasodan historia) about the number of artillery pieces Finns captured in 1941 during the offensive operations. There are of course famous pictures of Soviet 152 mm guns lined up with Finnish MPs, but what are the official numbers?

How do these numbers compare with numbers of artillery pieces bought in 1941-1944?

With best regards,

Bair

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 28 Aug 2004 19:39

Here is some from The History of the Finnish Field Artillery (although figures between 1941 - 1944, couldn't find the figures of 1941 only):

76 K/02 5 pcs
76 K/02-30 93
76 K/02-30/40 10
76 RK/27 214
76 VK/13 14
76 K/36 49
76 K/38 9
76 K/42 (ZiS-3) 12
122 H/09-30 21
122 H/10-30 145
122 K/31 29
122 H/38 41
152 H/09-30 85
152 H/30 1
152 H/37 37
152 H/38 45

= 810 guns (if I counted correctly :roll: )

RK = regiment cannon
VK = mountain cannon

Lots of guns were from Porlampi and Rautalahti encirclements of 1941 and also from Ilomantsi in 1944. Between summer 1942 and June 1944 guns were not captured.

Finns bought a total of 607 guns (13 different gun models) from Germany between 1940 and 1944:

1940 (220 guns):
76 K/02 54 pcs
105 K/29 54
120 K/78-31 24
150 H/15 20
150 H/40 48
155 H/17 20

1941 (166 guns):
105 H/41 27 pcs
155 H/17 127
155 K/17 12

1944 (221 guns):
105 H/33 53 pcs (arrived 21.2. - 4.3.1944)
105 H/33-40 8 (arrived on 5.9.1944)
122 H/10-30 72
152 H/37 27
152 H/38 57
155 H/17 4

During the Continuation War Finns lost a total of 316 guns of which 92 (28%) in 1944 in Karelian Isthmus and 32 field and 48 fortress artillery guns in 1944 in Olonets.

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Juha Hujanen
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Post by Juha Hujanen » 28 Aug 2004 23:53

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=4098
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=4098

Sorry there's no account for captured pieces in 41(although most of were captured in 41)

Cheer/Juha

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Bair
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Post by Bair » 30 Aug 2004 16:38

Thanks a lot!

Were all those guns captured intact?? 8O 8O 8O

with best regards,

Bair

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 30 Aug 2004 17:51

Bair wrote:Were all those guns captured intact??
I think most guns were not captured quite intact. There were all kinds of lacks and damages. Usually there was no time to destroy the guns completely if they were overrun. The most typical methods for "inactivating" were hiding, destroying or damaging somehow its breech lock or aiming devices. Many guns had combat damages but there were also intact brand new ones. Lots of gun equipment were missing too.

All captured guns were first sent to local repair shops, gun depots, State Gun Factory (VTT) or some private companies (like Tampella) which inspected, overhauled or repaired and painted the guns after which they were issued to troops or were left to depots. More seriously destroyed guns were "cannibalized" for spare parts. Because we had many same or very similar gun models there was also domestic production for spare parts. Spare parts and barrels were also bought from Sweden and Germany.

I totally forgot 50 mm, 82 mm and 120 mm mortars but I don't know their exact numbers. It was significant too (nearly the half of all mortars we had).

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Bair
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Post by Bair » 30 Aug 2004 18:14

Thank you Harri,

this looks like yet another topic for an article in Russian :) There is a certain gap in knowledge about use of captured Soviet artillery by the Finns. Tanks are more known...

with best regards,

Bair

JariL
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Post by JariL » 31 Aug 2004 09:29

Hi Bair,

One little detail about the captured guns. After the wars Finns had quite a lot of different types of Soviet made weaponry in the arsenal. Over time the ammunition stocks were used and more was needed. The most natural thing to do was to purchase some from the Soviet Union. But that proved to be difficult because the Soviet side sold ammunition only to weapons that had been bought from Soviet Union. So for example in order to buy ammunition for the 152 mm model 37 and 38 cannon-howitzers, which the other side could not find from their "previously sold" list, Finns had to buy 12 cannons.

These guns and the ones dating from WWII are still in use today but updated to 155 mm calibre. The same goes for the German 150 mm howitzer.

Best regards,

Jari

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 31 Aug 2004 19:04

JariL wrote:These guns and the ones dating from WWII are still in use today but updated to 155 mm calibre. The same goes for the German 150 mm howitzer.
Former captured Soviet 152 H/37 cannon-howitzers and 122 K/31 cannons and German 150 H/40 cannon-howitzers were modernized with long 152 mm barrel (not 155 mm). Their designations are now 152 H 88-37A, 152 H 88-31 and 152 H 88-40. Ballistically they all are now similar weapons and use the same ammo.

The only other WW II era guns which still would be used in case of war (if not removed from inventory recently) are modernized Finnish-made 105 H 61-37 (originally 105 H/37) and perhaps captured 152 H 38 howitzers (unless replaced by 152 H 55?). Because there were lots of old ammunition available for these guns 152 H 38s were to be modernized too in the early 1990's without replacing their barrels but when it was possible to buy brand new former East German guns modernization project was cancelled. We still have a few old gun types which are used in gunnery firing training. That saves newer guns and their ammo. We had huge stocks of captured ammo after the war and they were also bought from Germany during the war.

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Post by Mikko H. » 01 Sep 2004 07:24

The only other WW II era guns which still would be used in case of war (if not removed from inventory recently) are modernized Finnish-made 105 H 61-37 (originally 105 H/37) and perhaps captured 152 H 38 howitzers (unless replaced by 152 H 55?).
I'm under the impression that all combat-worthy 105mm guns were donated to Estonia in the late 1990s and the rest scrapped. But I might be wrong here.

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