War of 1939-40 in summer time?

[Keke]

Forests gives strong advantage to defending side and on summer these advantages are enhanced.

First, forest is excellent place for kind of semi-partisan hit-and-run tactics. Off course, Finish army was regular army with corresponding tactics but ambushes and sudden attack by small groups fared well for them. Such tactics are recognised by regular armies and recommended by rules of engagement.

Second, it is very easy to get desoriented in summer in forests. Again, defending side has advantages here due to superior knowledge of the terrain, more contemporaneous topographic maps, aid of local inhabitants.

Third, reconaissance is more difficult in summer forests, and it is more important for offensive side too. Lack of adequate reconaissance was one of the reasons of catastrophic Soviet losses during the war.

Forth, artillery's efficiency is limited as far as direct visibility targets are concerned . You know it's role was high in RKKA.

Fifth, the combat is summer is much closer due to again aforementioned limited visibility so anti-tank warfare is more effective.

And so on, and so on..

Well, most of the forests in Finland were and still are evergreen, so they offer as much cover during winter as in summer...and even more so when trees are covered with snow and there are less daylight hours.

[Grad]

Keke,

I'm exremely sorry for that but to say the truth we all had nothing but zero-sum-game at that time. So while I understand evelness of Stalin proposals I cant help but think about their "deepness".

Anyway I"msorry forr the invasion, I have great respect for Finnish (as any Russian do to say the honest),


So I support so called "Great Stalin"!

Sorry if you hate us...

[Keke]

Keke,

I'm exremely sorry for that but to say the truth we all had nothing but zero-sum-game at that time. So while I understand evelness of Stalin proposals I cant help but think about their "deepness".

Anyway I"msorry forr the invasion, I have great respect for Finnish (as any Russian do to say the honest),


So I support so called "Great Stalin"!

Sorry if you hate us...

Wha??

I was discussing with you if forests gave more advantages to the defender during winter or summer...not about any politics.

[Grad]

Keke,

to be honest Im extremely sorry

really all we had is discussing tactics at that time

But to be honest tactics is nothing without politics

I still have some hope that Russians at that time really had nothnig but demandin Hanko at that time and no more

You may ridicule me but really if Russians were so territory-mongering they would seize whole finland sooner or later

I don't knoe wether you know it or know but finnish are very very respested in Russia

First the war then "capitalism" compare any finnish territory close to the border with Russian ....

[Grad]

By the way "evergreen" forests may be quite close to "leave" ones but still.. You know I thought it's quite self-explanatory...

Even Russial official rules of engagement (boevoy ustav) cites forest struggle as very annoying thing triggering not more but close combat... The best tactics is exterminating forests around you... This was by the was the official tactics of Yermolov, i.e. guy that fought against Chechens in 19 century...

[Christian W.]

Personally, I dont have anything agaisnt Russians. Im yust hoping that in one day, one day they would give back the lands that they took from us. My grandmother was four years old in 1944, she says that when Soviet bombers appeared, her mother told them to go and hide to the foxhole she had digged on the potato field. Soon after that, an Finnish soldier came to their house and told them to take what belongings they can with them and then leave. That was the last time my grandmother or my greatgrandmother saw their home.

[Keke]

Keke,

to be honest Im extremely sorry

really all we had is discussing tactics at that time

But to be honest tactics is nothing without politics

I still have some hope that Russians at that time really had nothnig but demandin Hanko at that time and no more

You may ridicule me but really if Russians were so territory-mongering they would seize whole finland sooner or later

I don't knoe wether you know it or know but finnish are very very respested in Russia

First the war then "capitalism" compare any finnish territory close to the border with Russian ....

Military tactics is nothing without politics? That sounds like a political comissar talking. Whether forests offer more advantages to the defender in summer or winter has nothing to do with politics.

[Keke]

By the way "evergreen" forests may be quite close to "leave" ones but still.. You know I thought it's quite self-explanatory...

How leafwoods are close to evergreen in winter? What's there to be so self-explanatory?

[Steady]

Uninen asked:

And what comes to the swamps and tanks.. well.. JSU-152 could pass a swamp.. so what about the lighter vehicles?

Russians were very good at crossing swamps and other obstacles. In Manchuria in 1945, they were able to conduct army-size assaults through terrain that was deemed impassable by the Japanese, who most surely knew a thing or two about crossing difficult terrain themselves.

One method used by russians against germans was to drive old afv:s into swamp, sometimes dozens of them, so they formed a bridge over the obstacle. This way they were able to cause several surprises to the Germans during the latter part of the war. I dont know if they already had thought of that method in 1939.

[Hanski]

I think we have discussed this subject before at
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52963 .

I don't knoe wether you know it or know but finnish are very very respested in Russia

First the war then "capitalism" compare any finnish territory close to the border with Russian ....

Thank you for your compliments, Grad! I believe the Finnish Veterans are those who earned that respect with their deeds. I understand the opportunities that the Veterans have had in recent years to visit their old battlefields, to commemorate their fallen mates at the memorials on site, and discussions they have had with their Russian Veteran counterparts have much contributed to former post-war "mental" hostilities being finally replaced with mutual respect in a dignified manner.

What I would hope for is increased openness for history research in the archives in Russia. There must still be a lot of material there that has not yet been published that would promote our understanding on what really did take place.

In terms of economy: well, Viipuri once was a prominent Finnish city, but if you compare the present-day Vyborg with any Finnish city, ... :roll:

On the political side, Finland has been a very stable and non-problematic neighbour for the USSR/RF compared to many other bordering countries. As seen from our viewpoint, it has indeed been worrying at times; see http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43264

Cheers,
Hanski