The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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Esa K
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Post by Esa K » 28 Aug 2006 14:22

...and me try again...

...is it Karjalan armeijan esikunta... (staff of the Army of Carelia)...?


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Post by Janne » 29 Aug 2006 08:15

I know that Esa is beating the wrong bush: we are in Imatra, near the famous rapids, in the grand Jugend-style "Valtionhotelli" where the HQ of the Isthus Army (commanded first by Gen. Österman, then by Gen. Heinrichs) was located during the Winter War and which suffered bomb damages in the early days of the Continuation War.

The other building is the Modern-style hotel/office building in the same town. But that's as close as I get: I have no idea about the HQ or of its earlier location.

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 29 Aug 2006 10:20

Janne wrote:I know that Esa is beating the wrong bush: we are in Imatra, near the famous rapids, in the grand Jugend-style "Valtionhotelli" where the HQ of the Isthus Army (commanded first by Gen. Österman, then by Gen. Heinrichs) was located during the Winter War and which suffered bomb damages in the early days of the Continuation War.
The other building is the Modern-style hotel/office building in the same town. But that's as close as I get: I have no idea about the HQ or of its earlier location.
Hmm, Janne, you seem to be familiar with the restaurants... :P

I agree: Esa is not close to the solution. But Janne is "on the right tracks": the "town B" is Imatra (during the Continuation War it although was part of Ruokolahti which is not a town). What might be the mysterious "town A"?

The first mentioned building is the legendary so called "Väärätalo" completed after the Winter War which today has a Cumulus hotel and a warehouse. Another building is really the famous "Grand Hotel Imatra" or "Valtionhotelli" [State Hotel]. It was damaged and partly burned at the beginning of the Continuation War but it was repaired.

During the Winter War there was "Kannaksen Armeija Esikunta" [HQ/Karelian Isthmus Army]. The questions is what HQ was there during the Continuation War?

---

Hint #4: Since 1942 it was led by a disabled Colonel who was fired (removed) from his job at the beginning of the Continuation War.

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Post by Janne » 30 Aug 2006 08:09

Dunno about the restaurants, but I've stayed in both hotels at one time or another...

Anyway, the colonel who was relieved of his duties cannot be anyone other Col. Koskimies, who lost his command on the second day when Gen Talvela didn't think he was offensive enough...and sure enough, Koskimies later replaced Col Arajuuri as chief of "Päämajan sotilashallinto-osasto" which by then had been moved from Mikkeli and located in the grand hotel by the rapids.

This military administration was responsible for the recaptured areas, as distinct from the military administration responsible for the occupied areas. (Col Arajuuri became chief of the latter, which had to be considered a kind of bad career move in September 1944.)

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Post by Mikko H. » 30 Aug 2006 09:09

Col. Koskimies, who lost his command on the second day when Gen Talvela didn't think he was offensive enough...
Yeah, Finnish commanders had to be first and foremost obnoxious... :P

Sorry, couldn't resist!

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 30 Aug 2006 09:50

Janne wrote:Anyway, the colonel who was relieved of his duties cannot be anyone other Col. Koskimies, who lost his command on the second day when Gen Talvela didn't think he was offensive enough...and sure enough, Koskimies later replaced Col Arajuuri as chief of "Päämajan sotilashallinto-osasto" which by then had been moved from Mikkeli and located in the grand hotel by the rapids.

This military administration was responsible for the recaptured areas, as distinct from the military administration responsible for the occupied areas.
Well done Janne! "Supreme HQ Military Administration Department" is the correct answer. Basically it was a remote part of the Finnish Supreme HQ but it was in many ways an independent HQ which had a special task: military administration of the liberated Finnish areas ceded to USSR after the Winter War. If I had called it "department" everyone would have got it...
Janne wrote:(Col Arajuuri became chief of the latter, which had to be considered a kind of bad career move in September 1944.)
Have I misunderstood something...?

Anyways, over to Janne!!

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Post by Janne » 30 Aug 2006 13:32

Having had, at any time, a top appointment in anything to do with the occupied areas was bad news when the Soviets wanted all war criminals prosecuted and sentenced, which is why Arajuuri fled to Sweden. to avoid being arrested and charged.

The next question is an obvious follow-up: in connection with the Koskimies affair, Gen Talvela managed to irritate Mannerheim big time in two ways and Mannerheim took grand revenge on Talvela again in two ways. What were they?

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 31 Aug 2006 09:22

Talvela's "irritations" were 1.) the firing of Col. Eino Koskimies (CO 5.D) and 2.) replacing him with Col. Ruben Lagus. Mannerheim's "revenges" were 1.) replacing Lagus with Col. Ilmari Karhu and 2.) finally in 1942 sending Talvela to Germany as his liaison officer in OKH and OKW. Talvela was called back in 1944 but returned to the "special tasks" of Mannerheim in July 1944 when the battles north from Lake Ladoga had calmed down and Olonets Group (Aun.R) was suspended.

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Post by Janne » 31 Aug 2006 11:18

In Mannerheim's view Talvela had, as an army corps commander, the perfect right to dismiss any of his own division commanders, so 1.) wasn't it. Mannerheim didn't have anything against Lagus, so I'd like you to be more precise about 2.).

"Revenge" 1.) is quite right, but 2.) isn't - or at least it isn't the more immediate and hard-.hitting "revenge" I had in mind.

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Post by Esa K » 31 Aug 2006 11:31

Janne wrote:2.) isn't - or at least it isn't the more immediate and hard-.hitting "revenge" I had in mind.
My suggestion as an answer to number 2 is: He made Talvela the holder of the Mannerheim cross #2, not #1, wich Talvela thought he would be...

...and, Janne, if thats what you had in mind as the answer, thinks Harri is still in the lead here...


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Esa K

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Post by Janne » 31 Aug 2006 11:37

"Revenge" 2.) is absolutely right - and the winner is the one who can put 2.) and 2.) together...

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Post by Esa K » 31 Aug 2006 11:41

Hmm... 2.) + 2.) = "Ja se antoi ensimmäisen ristin ruotsalaisperkeleelle, mikä oli luvattu minulle Tolvajärven taisteluista" "He gave the first cross to the f***ing Swede, wich was promised to me for the battle of Tolvajärvi (in Winter War)."


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Esa K

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Janne
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Post by Janne » 31 Aug 2006 13:42

That's it! Talvela first went "wat out of line" by appointing Col. Lagus without even consulting Mannerheim who very strongly believed that he had the right to decide who commanded any of his divisions and he therefore retaliated by giving the command to Col Karhu instead of Lagus.

Talvela then again "acted above his rank" by arguing that Lagus should be promoted to Gen Maj so that he would outrank Col Karhu. Mannerheim didn't think it was any of Talvela's business whom he should make a general, so he rewarded Lagus with the Mannerheim Cross instead of promoting him - and since Talvela had rather much expected to be the recipient, it hit him quite hard, as his anecdotal comment attests.

BTW Lagus was promoted less than three months later in October 1941.

I judge and declare that the winner is, by points 2-1, Esa!

Esa K
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Post by Esa K » 31 Aug 2006 19:24

Thanks Janne, Thought I had to take revenge on myself after my fruitless sejour in the word of the hotels in Imatra...

and
:oops: Yes, guess I was a bit in hurry, or just lazy to reformulate my own words... :wink:


And new q:

An easy one, cause I was so eger to "introduce" the potato-cellar in Alahovi (Alahovin perunakellari) in this quiz, I ask: Who where the commanders who once had their commandposts there simultaneously?


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Esa K

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