The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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Esa K
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#1231

Post by Esa K » 29 Nov 2006, 14:58

Thanks Janne...
Janne wrote:(If you hadn't been so stubborn and refused to consult for instance Wikipedia, it wouldn't have taken so long:-))
Well had to go to Wiki... in the end to solve this, knew about those interned at Isle of Man and tried to remember where I read about them, so this went to be a bit of a long and stubborn sejour, maybe it´s my 100% Ostrobothnian genes... :lol:


New Q:

Lets continue with the British theme here. In the beginning of the Continuation War the Finnish troops that advanced into Ladoga Karelia found there some British workers in very bad shape. How comes that (that there where British workers there)?

Asks, with best regards

Esa K

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Juha Tompuri
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#1232

Post by Juha Tompuri » 30 Nov 2006, 09:41

Esa K wrote: In the beginning of the Continuation War the Finnish troops that advanced into Ladoga Karelia found there some British workers in very bad shape. How comes that (that there where British workers there)?
A tricky one (again from you) :wink: :)
Question perhaps inspired by this TTT thread: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=15 ?

Well my guess is that the "British workers" were not people, but tanks.
Soviet Union had bought 15 Mark II Medium tanks from UK in 1930 and they got there a nickname "British Worker"
Five abandonet Soviet Mark II Medium tanks (rusty, engines and weapons removed = bad shape ) where found by Finnish troops North of Lake Ladoga 1941.


Image
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Grea ... Tanks.html

Regards, very-pleased-to-get-back-to-the-equipment-Juha :wink:


Esa K
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#1233

Post by Esa K » 30 Nov 2006, 15:24

So correct as it can be!
Those "British Workers" in bad shape that was found in Ladoga Karelia, or to be precise, in town/village Vitele, were 5 of the total 15 Mark II Medium tanks that was bought by SU in 1930. (Could be so that the name was more than a nick, dont sure, but a possibility is that "British Worker" was also the official Soviet designation of them.)
Juha Tompuri wrote:Question perhaps inspired by this TTT thread: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=15 ?
Yep, the thread linked to actualized my interest in theese oddities. Have wondered sometimes why the tank wrecks where there and then.

So, congrats to Juha T. The stage is yours again.

Best regards

Esa K

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Juha Tompuri
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#1234

Post by Juha Tompuri » 30 Nov 2006, 21:08

Thanks Esa,
Esa K wrote:Yep, the thread linked to actualized my interest in theese oddities. Have wondered sometimes why the tank wrecks where there and then.
The Soviets seemed to have used quite many of the T-18(mainly ?) turrets at Karelia.

New question.
Name the place at the photo (what401).
It has something to do with this person

Image
http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/J ... E4rmi.html

Regards, Juha
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Tero T
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#1235

Post by Tero T » 30 Nov 2006, 21:41

Colonel Nikke Parmi . Is the location Tsopi ? Tero T

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Juha Tompuri
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#1236

Post by Juha Tompuri » 30 Nov 2006, 22:03

Tero T wrote:Colonel Nikke Parmi . Is the location Tsopi ? Tero T
Sorry, but no.
The place is not mentioned, but is marked with #1 at the map below

Regards, Juha
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Janne
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#1237

Post by Janne » 01 Dec 2006, 11:49

I would put Kangasjärvi right there on the map. IIRC it was a former Soviet "logging camp" which was later used to as a concentration/internment/prison camp for Finnish communists or other hard-core leftists. (The conditions and the treatment of the inmates was infamously pretty much genuine post-Civil War standard, although not as quite as bad asin Koveri.)

For some inexplicable reason it was decided to give certain inamtes an opportunity to volunteer for frontline duty in Pärmi's battalion, Er.P 21, which was manned by ordinary criminal convicts. Some inmates had to be fattened up first and quite a few defected as soon as possible and eventually the "politicals" had to be returned to camps.

Anyway, that's the story of Kangasjärvi in a nutshell - but I may be on the wrong trail here?

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#1238

Post by Juha Tompuri » 01 Dec 2006, 23:51

Janne wrote:I would put Kangasjärvi right there on the map. IIRC it was a former Soviet "logging camp" which was later used to as a concentration/internment/prison camp for Finnish communists or other hard-core leftists. (The conditions and the treatment of the inmates was infamously pretty much genuine post-Civil War standard, although not as quite as bad asin Koveri.)

For some inexplicable reason it was decided to give certain inamtes an opportunity to volunteer for frontline duty in Pärmi's battalion, Er.P 21, which was manned by ordinary criminal convicts. Some inmates had to be fattened up first and quite a few defected as soon as possible and eventually the "politicals" had to be returned to camps.

Anyway, that's the story of Kangasjärvi in a nutshell - but I may be on the wrong trail here?
Absolutely correct.

The pics are from a book, which I just have finished: Leiri (Camp) by Viljo Suutari, an ex-inmate.
Before it I re-red books of Nestori Parkkari Suomalaisessa Keskitysleirissä (In a Finnish Concentration Camp) and Taito Tiihonen Mielipidevanki Vuosimallia 1904 ( Political Prisoner m/1904).
There is a new book about this same subject which I haven't red (yet) Harry Verner Vuorinen: Myrskyn silmässä - Poliittisen vangin päiväkirja jatkosodan ajalta 1941-1944 (In the Eye of the Storm - Diary of a Political Prisoner during the Continuation War...)

The conditions and the treatment of the inmates was infamously pretty much genuine post-Civil War standard, although not as quite as bad as in Koveri
Well, from what I just have red, it's a bit difficult to compare them: at Kangasjärvi camp the food rations were smaller (as everywhere in Finland 1941-42 winter to spring) but the inmates didn't have to work that much. At Koveri (/Kovero) (# 3 at the map) the work was harder but rations higher.
The other camps where the prisoners were held were #2 Säämäjärvi (/Sänkkä), #4 Puropunkti (/Poropunkti) and #5 Kinnasvaara.

For the next week ( :lol: ), over to Janne

Regards, Juha

Janne
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#1239

Post by Janne » 02 Dec 2006, 12:52

First of all I must correct a memory blackout in my otherwise correct answer: the politicals came from a prison in Köyliö and they were sent (less the about hundred out of about three hundred who defected) to Kangasjärvi after their stay at the front. (My memory about the inmates who were sent to infantry divisions and had to be fattened up first is correct, too, but that obviously happened later than this episode between August-October in 1941. Unfortunately I seem to have a more persistent memory blackout on the details in this case.)

Anyway, this is, I'm afraid, the best I can come up in the line of an equipment-related question: Finnish wartime weapons design and manufacture had plenty of problems to deal with, but they did come up with a number of some quite unique or even pioneering designs which didn't, however always result in actual production, What groundbreaking weapon appeared in a prototype version in July 1944, was given the OK for manufacture, but never reached production before the "peace broke out"?

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Tero T
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#1240

Post by Tero T » 02 Dec 2006, 15:21

The Tampella 75k/44 was an extremely low profile AT weapon that would have rivalled the German PAK40. It was in prototype stage in 1944. Could it be this item that your question refers to.? Regards Tero T

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#1241

Post by Juha Tompuri » 02 Dec 2006, 19:39

Tero T wrote:The Tampella 75k/44 was an extremely low profile AT weapon that would have rivalled the German PAK40. It was in prototype stage in 1944. Could it be this item that your question refers to.? Regards Tero T
Tero, you well might be right.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ht=#163723

Regards, Juha

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#1242

Post by Janne » 04 Dec 2006, 12:31

I'd argue that the first prototype of that gun can be dated to March. The weapon I have in mind was a bit more inventive and ceratinly more creative. Its design included use of a principle that was quite rare at the time and AFAIK yet unused in infantry weapons, but widely used today. OTOH its other main principle had already seen some limited use, albeit in a non-techincal way, on the Eastern front. but hasn't been used anywhere else or ever since..

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Tero T
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#1243

Post by Tero T » 04 Dec 2006, 16:19

Ok! How about the gas system on the L41 Sampo. It's development was stopped in late 43 because of plans to produce the German MG42. So the timing is not 1944. hmmm! Tero T

Esa K
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#1244

Post by Esa K » 04 Dec 2006, 16:37

...or maybe A Lahti´s prototype AA-gun 20ItK/43?

Best regards

Esa K

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Juha Tompuri
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#1245

Post by Juha Tompuri » 04 Dec 2006, 19:07

Or the Finnish anti-tank javelin :roll:

Regards, Juha

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