The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

[Juha Tompuri]

Yep, Aunus it is.

47mm is also what I have read, and can't remember any source that mentions that 45mm AT-gun being of a armament of any Finnish Navy vessels.
Also the info (not to mention photos) of the twin Madsen is "quite" rare.
What about the roof mounted mg? I'm not sure about the type - Degtjarev DA?

According to the SA-photos, the original Finnish armament (1941) of Aunus was 2 20mm Madsen +?
ca. 1942-1943 she had perhaps a 47mm Hotchkiss/Obuhov at bow and quad Maxim on the bridge roof +?
The 45mm AT-gun possibly was mounted for the 1944 sailing season.

Some background info about ex-Lavian Ilga at Finnish service:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/~kd4997/Sota/Ilga/ILGA-laiva.htm
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... t#p1664249

Photo sources:
http://sa-kuva.fi photo numbers
162369
113265
162370

Markus, your turn next.

Regards, Juha

[peeved]

Thanks Juha,

New quizztion: The name of this gun and at least two respects in which it represented a swan song in artillery technology.

Markus

[JTV]

47mm is also what I have read, and can't remember any source that mentions that 45mm AT-gun being of a armament of any Finnish Navy vessels.

Excellent question, I spent over half an hour yesterday trying to figure out the right ship, but without success. As you mentioned the gun seems to be 45-mm antitank gun on coastal artillery gun mount, not the 45/47 N (21-K) naval gun version used on numerous Finnish ships. None of the sources mention the antitank gun version being used on any ship.

45-mm antitank-gun on coastal artillery mount. SA-kuva photo archive, photo number 125110:

Also the info (not to mention photos) of the twin Madsen is "quite" rare.

Try one of a kind in Finnish use if "20 mm Suomessa" by Pitkänen and Simpanen page 151 is correct. According this book the dual-gun version was listed in Finland as 20 ItK/36 M2.

What about the roof mounted mg? I'm not sure about the type - Degtjarev DA?

Impossible to say for sure due angle from which photo was taken, but my best guess is that it might be ShKAS.

Jarkko

[peeved]

New quizztion: The name of this gun and at least two respects in which it represented a swan song in artillery technology.

The half-a-dozen AFAIK last in artillery things for this gun type I can think of relate to combinations of recoil system, propellant and muzzle attachment used.

Markus

[peeved]

The half-a-dozen AFAIK last in artillery things for this gun type I can think of relate to combinations of recoil system, propellant and muzzle attachment used.

An example: Last black powder gun with a muzzle brake (possibly also the first production gunpowder artillery piece with muzzle brake).

[peeved]

Hint: French barrel, Finnish mounting, Nominal calibre very popular in US tanks of early post-war period.

[John Hilly]

Had this "thing" anything to do with your quizztion?

culasse_canon.jpg

With best,
J-P

[peeved]

Hi J-P,

For example that; AFAIK the quiz gun was the last service weapon to use the original breech system.

Markus

[BarSeek]

According to the SA-photos, the original Finnish armament (1941) of Aunus was 2 20mm Madsen +?
ca. 1942-1943 she had perhaps a 47mm Hotchkiss/Obuhov at bow and quad Maxim on the bridge roof +?
The 45mm AT-gun possibly was mounted for the 1944 sailing season.

Late add-on to "Aunus" guns (missed the question).
Ladoga Coastal Brigade diary contains records :

20.5.42 : s/s "Aunus" carried out gun testing. 14 pcs "Wickers" projectiles for 40 ItK/15-V and 200 pcs 7.65 mm cartridges for "Urkupyssy" used.
2.10.43 : s/s "Aunus" reported as currently armed by 1/47/40/OL and 2/20/60/M
03.12.43 : s/s "Aunus" used 20 pcs 47/40-OL projectiles for fire training
11-12.5.44 : 7.62 It.kk/31 ss was removed from s/s "Aunus", 20 It.K/36 M2 installed
27-28.6.44 : 45 mm anti-tank gun was placed on s/s "Aunus" in Lahdenpohja. Same gun placed to tugboat s/s "Valamo"

[John Hilly]

Only thing I can suggest is that this 90 mm De Bange was the last gun used in combat with fixed recoil.
So it was the last Slow Fire gun used, vs. more modern QF guns with modern recoil systems?

With best,
J-P

[peeved]

Hi J-P,

The quizbang did start out as a regular 90 mm de Bange devoid of a recoil system but was retrofitted with one by Wärtsilä IIRC. AFAIK it was both the last black powder artillery piece and the last gun with recoiling carriage to be converted into on-carriage recoil.

Markus

[John Hilly]

Do you mean I must figure out a new question Markus?

[peeved]

Hi J-P,

Go ahead with the next question since you've got most of the puzzle pieced together. As you obviously know the quiz gun is a 90 mm de Bange; In this incarnation known among other things as 90 K 77 k (for kiinteä or static) according to my photo source Rannikon Puolustaja N:o 4/1995.

AFAIK among service weapons of artillery it was:
The last black powder piece of artillery to be retired (disregarding the odd salute guns and museum weapons nominally on the roster)
The last black powder piece made with a muzzle brake (possibly also the first),
The last piece to use the original Mle 1877 de Bange interrupted screw breech,
The last black powder piece with a recoil mechanism (vipulavetti or lever carriage in this case),
The last gun with a recoiling carriage converted into one with a recoil mechanism.

Markus

[John Hilly]

Thanks Markus, although I didin't actually meet the demands!

Something exotic. What an earth these remains have anything to do with Finland?

exotic.jpg

With best,
J-P

[Juha Tompuri]

What an earth these remains have anything to do with Finland?

Pearl of the sky Cyclone engine, used both at Finland and at Papahānaumokuākea area
http://www.papahanaumokuakea.gov/mariti ... hotos.html

Regards, Juha