The official AHF Winter & Continuation War quiz thread

[John Hilly]

So right you are Juha. Brewster Buffalo it once was.
You brilliantly gave also photo source I used.

So figuring out job for a new quizz collapses to you Juha...

J-P

[Juha Tompuri]

Thanks,

Coral and the radial engine were the clues.
A new one - what is this?

[JTV]

A new one - what is this?

Fire position for 20-mm vierling AA-gun on German Siebel-ferry (minus the gun).

Jarkko

SA-kuva.fi photo number 104653.

[Juha Tompuri]

Correct.
SA-photo number 98479
1942 July at Lahdenpohja:


Jarkko, your turn next

[JTV]

Correct. Jarkko, your turn next

Thanks, I had seen that photo earlier while going through SA-kuva.fi, which made it easy.

Next question: Name the most poorly chosen location for Finnish super-heavy (over 200-mm caliber) coastal artillery battery during World War 2? There was one particular coastal artillery battery which (with hindsight) really stand out in this regard.

Jarkko

[John Hilly]

Was there one in the Bothnic Gulf?

[JTV]

Was there one in the Bothnic Gulf?

No... There were no super-heavy coastal batteries on Gulf of Botnia at all.

Jarkko

[JTV]

1st hint: This particular super-heavy coastal artillery battery was equipped with 254/45 D guns (254-mm/10" coastal gun model 1891 on Durlacher gun mount).

Jarkko

[CanKiwi2]

1st hint: This particular super-heavy coastal artillery battery was equipped with 254/45 D guns (254-mm/10" coastal gun model 1891 on Durlacher gun mount).

Jarkko

I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here and guessing it was the 254-mm/10" coastal gun model 1891 on Durlacher gun mounts at Kuivasaari. Originally built around WW1 as part of the Krepost Sveaborg fortifications.

[JTV]

I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here and guessing it was the 254-mm/10" coastal gun model 1891 on Durlacher gun mounts at Kuivasaari. Originally built around WW1 as part of the Krepost Sveaborg fortifications.

Sorry, but no. It was not Kuivasaari Island, which btw no longer had 254-mm coastal guns during World War 2. Presumably they had been removed in early 1930's when steel turret for 305-mm coastal guns was built in "battery front" concrete structure previously used by 254-mm artillery battery. The 254-mm museum gun that is now in Kuivasaari outdoor exhibition was transferred to Kuivasaari from nearby Katajaluoto Island in year 1992.

2nd hint: The particular super-heavy coastal artillery battery was also the last coastal artillery battery equipped with 254/45 D guns ever built.

Jarkko

[CanKiwi2]

I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here and guessing it was the 254-mm/10" coastal gun model 1891 on Durlacher gun mounts at Kuivasaari. Originally built around WW1 as part of the Krepost Sveaborg fortifications.

Sorry, but no. It was not Kuivasaari Island, which btw no longer had 254-mm coastal guns during World War 2. Presumably they had been removed in early 1930's when steel turret for 305-mm coastal guns was built in "battery front" concrete structure previously used by 254-mm artillery battery. The 254-mm museum gun that is now in Kuivasaari outdoor exhibition was transferred to Kuivasaari from nearby Katajaluoto Island in year 1992.

2nd hint: The particular super-heavy coastal artillery battery was also the last coastal artillery battery equipped with 254/45 D guns ever built.

Jarkko

Well, as far as my limited knowledge goes, there were originally 254/45 D batteries on Kuivasaari (which we have eliminated), Katajaluoto and Rysäkari which were all outer island batteries around Helsinki. By 1939 some of these had been moved around and there were 254/45 D batteries on Saarenpää (6 x 254/45 D), Kirkkonmaa (4 x 254/45 D), Villinki (4 x 254/45 D), Isosaari (4 x 254/45 D), Katajaluoto (4 x 254/45 D) and Rysäkari (4 x 254/45 D): (sourced from http://www.oocities.org/finnmilpge/fmp_ ... ort39.html)

Rysäkari, Katajaluoto, Isosaari are all on the outer islands around Helsinki and Villinki was also in the Helsinki sector. Saarenpää was in the Viipuri sector and saw some pretty heavy action in the Winter War, Kirkkomaa was in the Kotka sector. None of these seem to be poorly chosen locations.

But also later in WW2 I see 3 x 254/45D at Kellomäki, which seems to have been a new position and it seems to have been the last built (construction starting January 1941) so I'll taken a second stab at it and say it's Kellomäki, altho I couldn't figure out if this was a poorly chosen location or not. In fact, I can't even figure out where it is apart from eastern part of Gulf of Finland (near Terijoki?)

[JTV]

But also later in WW2 I see 3 x 254/45D at Kellomäki, which seems to have been a new position and it seems to have been the last built (construction starting January 1941) so I'll taken a second stab at it and say it's Kellomäki, altho I couldn't figure out if this was a poorly chosen location or not. In fact, I can't even figure out where it is apart from eastern part of Gulf of Finland (near Terijoki?)

Correct! - it is Kellomäki (nowadays Komarovo). Back when it was part of Finland, the village was part of town of Terijoki, but nowadays it is belongs to city of St. Petersburg. The particular coastal artillery battery was 28th Super-Heavy (Coastal) Artillery Battery and its exact location was on top of a steel hill rising from the beach near southern end of Merikatu street (nowadays: Morskaya Ulitsa) - for those wanting to check exact location I can suggest google maps. The location was apparently originally selected with the plan of building super-heavy coastal artillery battery, which could be used for counter-battery fire against guns of Kronstadt naval base. The battery was equipped with three 254/45 D coastal guns, which were transferred from coastal forts defending Helsinki. Most of the construction work for building was done in spring - autumn of 1942 with the guns being installed to massive concrete slabs layed in each gun pit. First gun was test-fired 21st of July 1942, while the second gun got ready 24th of September and third gun in 29th of September 1942.

The problem with the location was that it was too visible and too close - just 12 kilometers from the frontline and similar distance to closest Soviet coastal artillery fort (Totleben), while main islands of Kronstandt were some 18 - 20 kilometers away. Hence the coastal artillery battery was well with-in range of both Soviet field artillery plus naval artillery & coastal artillery from Kronstandt. With its guns on top of high steep hill, if the battery would have opened fire, there would have been little chance of not being spotted immediately - with obvious result of ending up on receiving end of counter-battery fire from numerous Soviet artillery batteries. Hence this battery was ordered not to open fire until absolutely necessary and after being test-fired did not fire a single shell until starting of Soviet offensive in June of 1944. It might be worth noting that while 254/45 D had maximum range of 27.7 km with Finnish-improved ammunition, due to old-fashioned gun carriage design the practical rate fire per gun was only about 1 shot per minute and even if well liked the guns were known to have reliability-issues - not the best possible weapons for long-range artillery duel against numerically superior and more modern enemy artillery.

Hence this super heavy coastal artillery battery remained quiet until Soviet offensive in Carelian Isthmus started 9th of June 1944. Morning 10th of June the battery received list of six targets, which it was ordered to shell for harassment (häirintä). The secondary idea for these orders originating from HQ of IV Army Corps was that the artillery battery was expexted to attract counter-battery fire and in this way it would reduce the number of Soviet guns shelling Finnish infantry at that moment. One of the six targets was too close and another too far, but the battery opened fire 09:35 and fired 20 shells for the remaining four targets. The guns proved unreliable with only third gun working properly (it fired 12 of the 20 shells), while other two guns suffered problem with primers getting stuck in their breech systems. As expected in less than five minutes the battery started receiving heavy incoming counter-battery fire, which luckily did not get direct hit to any gun pit. In the afternoon the jammed primer was successfully removed from the first gun. Second gun had such a serious problem that it needed to have its breech block system replaced before it could be used again. 14:35 the battery again opened harassment fire to new set of targets received from HQ of IV Army Corps. As before third gun was working properly, while the first gun fired just one shell before primer again got stuck and second gun that was out of order did not fire any. Finnish troops fighting a delay battle against advancing Soviets provided third set of targets to which third gun fired six shells later that afternoon. Soon after this the battery received orders to pause shooting, because Soviet counter-battery fired towards it was landing also to nearby road, via which Finnish troops (mostly field artillery at that time) were retreating. Around 18:20 the battery received orders to prepare destroying its guns. In between 23:45 in 10th of June and 01:45 11th of June all three guns & ammunition storages were blown up and dugouts set on fire. The battery was abandoned 01:45 that morning with battery commander Captain Tuomarila leaving with the last men. 12th of June 1944 personnel of 28th Super-Heavy (Coastal) Artillery Battery was used to create mortar company that was part of Coastal Artillery Regiment 2 for rest of the war.

So 10th of June 1944 this battery fired 32 shells, all of them HE-shells (miinakranaatti) and to ground targets. Before that day it had fired only 1 or 3 shells, which had been fired in 1942 for testing the guns, which brings the total number of shells this battery fired during almost two years of its existance to just 33 - 35 shells. Considering the amount of resources used for building this coastal artillery battery, that 70 - 100 men spent two years in there and that its guns were ultimately lost, with a hindsight it would be difficult to note the outcome as anything else but waste of resources.

Over to you Nigel.

Jarkko

[CanKiwi2]

Thx Jarkko, that was quite an explanation. Really interesting. Looking forward to your page on super heavy coastal artillery

As for my question: These three gentlemen below are Finnish emigrants belonging to a Finnish fraternal organisation. What was the organisation they belonged to and in which country(s) outside of Finland did it exist?

FinnishQuestion.jpg (101.62 KiB) Viewed 1358 times

[CanKiwi2]

Thx Jarkko, that was quite an explanation. Really interesting. Looking forward to your page on super heavy coastal artillery

As for my question: These three gentlemen below are Finnish emigrants belonging to a Finnish fraternal organisation. What was the organisation they belonged to and in which country(s) outside of Finland did it exist?

1st clue: The organisation still exists.

FinnishQuestion.jpg

[CanKiwi2]

1st clue: The organisation still exists.

2nd clue: In the United States (mostly) and Canada (part), they tried to expand into Australia and back into Finland but didn't suceed in that (reducing the question to the 1st - what is the name of the organisation....)