OK. There were also other minor accidents and failures.mottimatti wrote:Yes, but at " sotatoimialue " ( War Action Area )Harri wrote:Like said the LY incident was an accident and the SB incident happened far away from the North Finland. I have personally served at Luonetjärvi (or better known as Tikkakoski) which is about 25 km north from Jyväskylä in Central Finland. Finnish bombers although operated also from Luonetjärvi but this one was a training mission. .
Kahla knew the basics of flying but could not handle the plane properly with the pilot still sitting on a seat. He did what he could in that situation. He could have also flown higher and bailed out but his parachute came out when he climbed away from the back seat and he had no other choices but to try flying the plane back to the base. Without doubt an exceptional achievement!mottimatti wrote:Yes, but he was not qualified pilot , so what is the question : Was he a " Chicken "? No , He did much more that You can except .Harri wrote:Actually Kahla was originally a pilot trainee but because his talents were so "bad" he was moved to observer training. Kahla could have probably landed much better but when the killed pilot still sat on his seat Kahla could not handle the steering stick properly and neither reach to pedals. All observers had later basic flying training (for emergencies) and some of them even became pilots during the war. .
That was usual in many countries as far as I know. There were also countries that didn't have NCO pilots.mottimatti wrote:Usually in FAF the observer was the commander of plane.Harri wrote: Both pilot officers and observers (they all were officers, there were also "MG gunners" who were NCOs or soldiers) could be Flight Leaders.
Atso Haapanen has cross-checked official war-time files and numerous books (including Pajari's) and compares these figures. Then he tells his opinion on the differences between sources and the possible mistakes. I consider his figures the best I have seen. They are very close to the figures of Keskinen and Stenman (who are "the most correct" source what comes to Finnish military aviation). Haapanen has found several minor miscalculations and conflicts in official records but many authors have loaned these figures without checking them. Like I said: check first, then complain (if needed)!mottimatti wrote:There seems to be a question: Where those writers get their statistics ? Perhaps from Pajari ?Harri wrote: No, but other books have better and more complete statistics. So, I suggest checking the books I mentioned. I forgot to mention Hannu Valtonen's book(s) Juha and Mikko already mentioned. Also Jukka Piipponen's "Onttolan Punaiset Pirut" [The Red Devils of Onttola] (Koala-kustannus, 1997) tells an interesting story of Aarno "Aki" Ylennysmäki who was a telegrapher and MG gunner in PLe.Lv.48 (in Blenheims).
Finnish fighter losses (excluding damaged planes) during the Lapland War by Atso Haapanen:
- 15.10.1944 BW-386 (HLe.Lv.26) Crashed at Vaala airfield when ran out of fuel. Plane cought fire and burned. Pilot was injured by burns. (Is this date correct, or 17.10.?)
- 18.10.1944 BW-357 (26) Shot down at Marrasjärvi village (between Rovaniemi and Kittilä) by German AA fire. Pilot was killed.
- 18.10.1944 BW-370 (26) Damaged at Enontekiö by German AA fire. Pilot forced landed on a too small lake and plane crashed to the shore. Plane was damaged beyond repairs. Pilot survived without injuries.
- 18.10.1944 BW-379 (26) Shot down at Marrasjärvi village (between Rovaniemi and Kittilä) by German AA fire. Pilot was killed.
- 24.10.1944 BW-355 (26) Shot down at Muonio (southern coast of Jerisjärvi) by German AA fire. Pilot bailed out.
During the Lapland War Brewsters were used for the last time on 3.12.1944.
Finnish fighters had the following amount of missions (number of planes on 6.10.1944 / 16.11.1944):
(8/-) MSv (Flight / HLe.Lv.28 ) Intercepting missions 0, Escorts 7, Reconnaissance missions 13 = 20
(7/-) MS 0, 0, 32 = 32
(10/5) BW 3, 37, 78 = 118
(?/3) MY (Flight / TLe.Lv.12) 1, 6, 25 = 32
= 202 combat missions