Suho Lighthouse

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Art
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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Art » 29 Aug 2012 15:57

Vaeltaja wrote: Another question, sort of arising form the phrasing or rather the form of the documents... Were these losses 2 x I-153 and 4 x IL-2 suffered by Soviet air units specifically attacking the ferries?
I believe these are losses over Ladoga, no idea about details. There is another forum page, if you are interested:
http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/arhprint/118181
We have:
2 I-15bis from 11 IAP VVS KBF (sergeant Prokofiev and jr.sergeant Drachenko) lost (one shot down in air a combat, the other didn't return to the base)
1 IL-2 from 57 SBAP VVS KBF (private Deruzhinskiy) didn't return from a mission to Sukho
1 IL-2 from 57 SBAP VVS KBF (jr. lieutenant Yeryomin) crash-landed on the Finnish territory after the mission to Sukho, the pilot captured
1 IL-2 from 57 SBAP crash-landed on friendly territory, total write-off
1 IL-2 from 15 GvShAP/Leningrad Front (sr.sergeant Fortunin)- shot down by fighters, fell into the lake
1 IL-2 from 15 GvShAP (sergeant Sukharev)- collided with another IL-2, fell into the lake
1 I-153 from 286 IAP/Leningrad Front shot down in air combat (not clear where exactly)

Mangrove
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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Mangrove » 29 Aug 2012 18:27

Art wrote: 1 IL-2 from 57 SBAP VVS KBF (jr. lieutenant Yeryomin) crash-landed on the Finnish territory after the mission to Sukho, the pilot captured
B. A. Yeryomin crash-landed at Sirkinsaari's Koskitsajoki on 22 October 1942 at 10.05 a.m. He was returned to USSR on 21 October 1944.

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Juha Tompuri » 29 Aug 2012 19:26

Art wrote:And Soviet info on losses:
http://sirjones.livejournal.com/pics/catalog/280/616857
Seems (plese correct me , if I have understood wrong) to include also Soviet claims:
5 German taken as POW at Suho

Shot down:
-8 Me-109
-2 Fiat-5 ( AFAIK Finnish Fiat G.50)
-1 Ju-88
-1 Dornier 215
-2 Kaproni (Caproni ???)

Damaged:
-1 Dornier 215
-2 Me-109

Regards, Juha

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by BarSeek » 29 Aug 2012 19:48

Martti Kujansuu wrote:B. A. Yeryomin crash-landed at Sirkinsaari's Koskitsajoki on 22 October 1942 at 10.05 a.m. He was returned to USSR on 21 October 1944.
Just curious about how it was possible to hit the aircraft in Sirkinsaari (Sirkiänsaari ?) at 10.05 when Germans departed from Suho on their way back at 9.14 DSZ (=10.14). BTW Sirkiänsaari (if I get it right) is quiet distant place from Ladoga shore. Probably that IL-2 had nothing to do with Suho mission ?

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by BarSeek » 29 Aug 2012 19:51

Juha Tompuri wrote:Seems (plese correct me , if I have understood wrong) to include also Soviet claims:
5 German taken as POW at Suho
Juha, you understood it right but one thing is wrong. In summary report they claimed 5 dead Germans found on Suho.

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Mangrove » 29 Aug 2012 20:29

BarSeek wrote: Probably that IL-2 had nothing to do with Suho mission ?
Koskitsa at Sirkiänsaari is located about 10 kilometers inland. The plane was not brought down by anti-aircraft fire but crashed by itself. It did not cross the front line from south so it must have come from Ladoga in the east. Finnish reports made a connection between this flight and the battle of Suho.

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Juha Tompuri » 29 Aug 2012 20:42

BarSeek wrote:Juha, you understood it right but one thing is wrong. In summary report they claimed 5 dead Germans found on Suho.
Thanks for the correction. Any idea about the Kaproni's?
Art wrote:I believe these are losses over Ladoga, no idea about details.
During the same day there was air combat also over Finnish Gulf between Finnish and Soviet AF's.
According to
Image
http://www.aviationshop.fi/product_info ... ucts_id=23
That day shot down by Finnish AF:
a DB-3 of 1 GMTAP at Kreivinlahti (Finnish Gulf) between 0930-0940
a Pe-2 of 4GPBAP at Morje between 1050-1150
two I-15bis of 11AP over Ladoga between 1350-1500

Image
http://www.airforcemuseum.fi/hannu_valt ... en_sivusta
Mentions 1/JG 54 flying 6 misson on that day with (total ?)22 planes

Regards, Juha

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by BarSeek » 29 Aug 2012 21:28

Martti Kujansuu wrote:Koskitsa at Sirkiänsaari is located about 10 kilometers inland. The plane was not brought down by anti-aircraft fire but crashed by itself. It did not cross the front line from south so it must have come from Ladoga in the east. Finnish reports made a connection between this flight and the battle of Suho.
That place is located 17 km from nearest shore and 90 km from Suho where at the time of crash landing were German ferries. Probably the pilot had navigation problems when reached that place instead of Suho ? Guys at Art's link say there is interrogation report of captured pilot in Finnish archive. Unfortunately I don't know if it is available online.

Vaeltaja
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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Vaeltaja » 29 Aug 2012 22:00

Juha Tompuri wrote:That day shot down by Finnish AF:
a DB-3 of 1 GMTAP at Kreivinlahti (Finnish Gulf) between 0930-0940
a Pe-2 of 4GPBAP at Morje between 1050-1150
two I-15bis of 11AP over Ladoga between 1350-1500
That is quite interesting... None of those match the Finnish claims from the war diary. DB-3 was reported shot down at Morje and Pe-2 near Harjavalta. And the last two kills were reported as I-16s. Though given the amount of Spitfires Finns reported downed that probably comes as no surprise, though i am rather baffled on how biplane could be understood as a monoplane.

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Art » 30 Aug 2012 09:34

Juha Tompuri wrote: That day shot down by Finnish AF:
a DB-3 of 1 GMTAP at Kreivinlahti (Finnish Gulf) between 0930-0940
According to M.Morozov on 22.10.1942 two DB-3 on an antishipping mission were attacked by Finnish fighters, one was seriously damaged but managed to return to the base. The regiment lost two DB-3 as write-offs in October 1942, both on 26 October.

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by BarSeek » 30 Aug 2012 15:09

Martti Kujansuu wrote:The plane was not brought down by anti-aircraft fire but crashed by itself. It did not cross the front line from south so it must have come from Ladoga in the east. Finnish reports made a connection between this flight and the battle of Suho.
As it appears from diary records , that IL-2 was really damaged in air combat over Ladoga.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3388175
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4934068

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Mangrove » 30 Aug 2012 16:06

BarSeek wrote: As it appears from diary records , that IL-2 was really damaged in air combat over Ladoga.
Kenttälentovarikko 1 sent a team to extract the plane from the site on 24 October. They arrived back on 28 October.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=2728315

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Juha Tompuri » 31 Aug 2012 11:08

Art wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote: That day shot down by Finnish AF:
a DB-3 of 1 GMTAP at Kreivinlahti (Finnish Gulf) between 0930-0940
According to M.Morozov on 22.10.1942 two DB-3 on an antishipping mission were attacked by Finnish fighters, one was seriously damaged but managed to return to the base.
Thank you Art, Морская торпедоносная авиация by Мирослав Морозов is a book?
Do you know did the DB-3 (Il-4?) in question ever fly again?

Regards, Juha

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by Mangrove » 31 Aug 2012 13:13

I found Yeryomin's interrogation report from the Finnish National Archive. The 5-page report is dated 26 October 1942 by Lt. A. Soismaa from 15th Division's intelligence office. Yeryomin belonged to the 1st Flight of 57 SBAP based at 256th Airbase at Grazhdanka. I have translated here the part where the Suho mission is discussed:
The wake up call was already at 6.00 on 22 October 1942. Since usually the pilots woke up between 7.30 and 8.00 a.m, they immediately started to think something is going on. However there was no rush. Morning coffee was served at 8.00 a.m. Soon after a Captain ordered pilots to briefing room where the Chief of Staff announced that the Germans are landing troops at Suho lighthouse. He ordered four IL-2s to take-off immediately and to harass enemy's ships at Southern Ladoga and around Suho lighthouse.

Apart from the POW, the flight consisted of Captain Potapov (as CO of the Flight), 1st Lt. Bezrukov (both of which had flown several patrol missions) and Sgt. Ditzhinskij (his first combat flight). Before the pilots had departed from the room, Chief of Staff added that they should not fight with the enemy fighters "as our own fighters will take care of them". "You will first fly towards heading 59-60º and follow then Potapov". He finally wished good luck and nice journey. Before the Suho lighthouse the POW spotted enemy vessels. He received anti-aircraft fire which caused part of the plane's right wing to disintegrate. After climbing he noticed that a German Messerschmitt had flown towards him from the side. Soon after this he received machine gun fire from the rear. The controls were damaged and he had to first eject the bombs (400 kg) to the Ladoga and then make an emergency landing. He received minor injuries to the head and was unconscious for few minutes.
[...]

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Re: Suho Lighthouse

Post by BarSeek » 31 Aug 2012 14:35

Thanks a lot , Martti !

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