Grigorejev's partisan brigade

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Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by LW » 10 Jan 2006 11:42

I was googling to check for some information about Grigorejev's partisan brigade when I found a year-old thread in the holocaust section of this forum. I have some comments to add to some posts and I thought that it would be better idea to start a new thread here from those.

Juha Hujanen wrote:The Avengers partisan unit was likely the Detachment 116 (Mstitelj),which operated in Sekee sector earlier. Its CO was Karelian known as Nikolajev.


No, Nikolajev was the leader of the Recon Platoon. He survived the operation. Mstitelj was commanded by Popov.

Juha Tompuri wrote:According to the Finnish version of the Soviet era "Za tsertoj miloserdija" ( Korpi ei tunne armoa, No mercy at the wilderness) by Dimitri Gusarov 119 (120?) of them got home ("less 20" of them being female). Of the KIA 80 male "partisans" had died of hunger. According to the "Sissiprikaatin tuho" ( The Destruction of the Partisan Brigade) by Pentti H. Tikkanen 24 "partisans" were taken POW. Finnish casualities at the operations were KIA: 2 officers, 7 Nco and 28 privates. WIA: 9 officers, 18 Nco and 54 privates. One officer was MIA ( probably taken POW by the "partisans" and executed later. A war crime.


Actually, Gusarov gives that 120 (or 119 or 124, his figure is a bit ambigous) for the number of partisans who returned in the main group. In addition 34 partisans returned before the brigade crossed Finnish lines (44 were sent back, 10 died in a Finnish ambush: this ambush is described in Gusarov's book. He got his information directly from two survivors). Gusarov mentions three other groups of partisans who returned after being separated from the brigade: Nikolajev's recon platoon (apparently 11 survivors), and "squads" led by Polevik and Sabalin. He doesn't tell how many survivors returned with those two groups. There is also the possibility that some individual partisans reached Soviet outposts and perhaps even some members from Grisukov's platoon (of the "Toivo Antikainen" detachment) that seems to have got separated from the main unit shortly before the battle on the hill 264.9. The total number of partisan survivors seems to be around 200 men. (G.N. Kuprijanov gives the figure of 288 survivors but that seems to be suspiciously high).

That one Finnish officer MIA was Lieutenant Väinö Yliperttula (whose surname is in simpler form "Perttula" in most sources). Gusarov's book has a description where a partisan shot Finnish officer from across a small marsh and then sneaked there to retrieve his backback. His papers then revealed the name of the casualty to be Perttula. The account where Gusarov describes how a Finnish officer was captured, interrogated, and shot during the same battle seems to be completely fiction: I haven't been able to find any suitable candidate for the prisoner from the Finnish database of combat losses. My hypothesis is that Gusarov uses him as a literary device that allows the partisans to find who their opponents were (IV/12.Pr). However, since some Soviet archieval sources claim that the partisans faced two batallions in that combat it looks to me that they didn't get that information during the battle.

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Juha Tompuri » 11 Jan 2006 00:31

Hi LW.

Welcome to the Forum


LW wrote:Actually, Gusarov gives that 120 (or 119 or 124, his figure is a bit ambigous) for the number of partisans who returned in the main group.
At several cases Gusarov mentiones the (total) Partisan Brigade strenght after Jolmajärvi crossing/at home ca. 120 partisan /men&women.
At one part at that book Gusarov mentiones the Brigade strenght on 16th August (two days before Jolmajärvi crossing, which, according to Gusarov, caused 30KIA, 10 drowned) to have been barely 200 men.


In addition 34 partisans returned before the brigade crossed Finnish lines (44 were sent back, 10 died in a Finnish ambush: this ambush is described in Gusarov's book. He got his information directly from two survivors).
Yes

Gusarov mentions three other groups of partisans who returned after being separated from the brigade: Nikolajev's recon platoon (apparently 11 survivors), and "squads" led by Polevik and Sabalin. He doesn't tell how many survivors returned with those two groups.
Gusarov also gives the number 120 survivors, after the Nikolajev reached the main unit.
Also Gusarov mentiones that Platoon Nikolajev (11 partsans, many of them wounded) got back to the main unit 15/16th August after the attack against Company Vierimaa.
If the partisan platoons had 8-10 partisan, according to the Gusarov, squads had.........partisan?

There is also the possibility that some individual partisans reached Soviet outposts and perhaps even some members from Grisukov's platoon (of the "Toivo Antikainen" detachment) that seems to have got separated from the main unit shortly before the battle on the hill 264.9. The total number of partisan survivors seems to be around 200 men.
Do you count them who did not cross Finnish lines and returned as survivors too?

Regads, Juha

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Mangrove » 22 May 2010 17:57

Reports of the battles against the brigade can be found from 12. Prikaati's war diary attachments, SPK 20460.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3071332.

Losses
Finnish:
KIA = 2+7+28 = 37
WIA = 9+18+54 = 81
MIA = 1+0+0 = 1
------------------
12+25+82 = 119

Soviet:
588 KIA (counted), 24 POW
-------------------
612

Spoils of War (summary):
140 rifles
22 LMG
10 SMG
38 kg of TNT
23 thermite bombs
2 radios

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Juha Tompuri » 22 May 2010 20:48

LW wrote:I was googling to check for some information about Grigorejev's partisan brigade when I found a year-old thread in the holocaust section of this forum.
This: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 79&start=0
Martti Kujansuu wrote:Spoils of War (summary):
140 rifles
22 LMG
10 SMG
38 kg of TNT
23 thermite bombs
2 radios
Some interesting notes:
-the partisans seemed to have had both 7.62 X 53R and 7.92 x 57 rifles and LMGs (the 7.92mm LMGs perhaps of Polish origin?) also 9 x 19 & 7.62 x 25 pistols and SMGs - quite strange thing for such a small unit and for the ammo supply.

-15 Belgian? rifles captured
-They also had 22lr rifles
-no captured pistols or revolvers mentioned - perhaps taken as personal souvenirs (as mentioned at the original link)


Regards, Juha

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by igor_verh » 08 Sep 2011 15:42

-15 Belgian? rifles captured
-They also had 22lr rifles
-no captured pistols or revolvers mentioned - perhaps taken as personal souvenirs (as mentioned at the original link)
According book by K.Gnetnev "Secrets of the Forest Wars: The partisan war in Karelia 1941 - 1944 years of memories, photographs and documents", many partisans detachments, whish were formed in 1941,were armed by belgian rifles, german carbines, germans machine guns"Browning" and english machine guns by Lewis system. All it weapons remained in storage since the occupation of Russian North by the Antanta forces in 1918—1921.
Only in 1942 on Karelian Front began to arrive fighters with PPSh-41 and SVT-40, many partisans after some operations captured trophies - finnish "Suomi". They thought it better than PPSh and PPD, because ''Suomi'' had a better build quality and was reliable. But on Onego ice rifle was better than any submachine gun.
Also according Gnetnev, some сommanders from Brigade had pistols, for example, Grigirev and Aristov had "Mausers", also partisans had TT and Nagant, but many partisan didn't prefer to take pistols in raid - they had a very heavy backpacks(30-40 kg), pistol was concidered excess weight. I think, partisans took most part of pistols, some partisans left their rifles because they were injured and too hungry and came back only with pistols and grenades - all it information you may find in Gnetnev's book.
About 22lr rifles - partisans prefered it for silent shot, also in brigade were some silent rifles "Bramid".

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Vaeltaja » 08 Sep 2011 19:40

Just wondering... did Soviets regard the uniformed 'partisans' like Grigorejev's brigade and the non-unformed partisans as the same lot? That is at least in Finnish writings there seems to be certain amount of respect being given to the uniformed partisans (likened occasionally to Finnish LRP troops as elite or specialist troops) while non-uniformed are regarded pretty much as criminals or terrorists

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Juha Tompuri » 08 Sep 2011 20:14

igor_verh wrote:Also according Gnetnev, some сommanders from Brigade had pistols, for example, Grigirev and Aristov had "Mausers"
Grigoryev Mauser:
Image
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... t.#p667209

Regards, Juha

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Juha Tompuri » 08 Sep 2011 20:38

igor_verh wrote:About 22lr rifles - partisans prefered it for silent shot, also in brigade were some silent rifles "Bramid".
During Continuation War there have been some mentions of the Soviet "partisans" using silenced 22LR "Гек" (= Gek = Geco?) guns to execute POW's and captured civilians quietly.
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/164/298035.html
Two 22LR guns were captured from the Grigoryev partisan brigade.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=71879&hilit
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... t#p1288901

Regards, Juha

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by igor_verh » 08 Sep 2011 21:06

In summer 1941 most part of partisans detachmens consisted of local citizens, sometimes even the commanders were civilians. Partisans were poorly armed, they didn't have standard military clothing, often detachments joined to army units. For example, detachment "Vperyod" ("Forward","Вперёд ") kept the road under Padany(Paatane, Паданы) with soviet army units and also with soldiers from 27 Div. near Big Tiksha ( Большая Тикша) - against 14 Finnish Division.
Detachment "Brothers in arms" ("Боевые друзья") defended Medvezhegorsk with 126 regiment of major Valli.
Later all detachments received the standard Army uniform, from 1942 - new weapon, partisans were training, they had а big bases in Lehta, Segezha and Marnavolok. Partisans did not take any documents, notes, newspapers etc. in raids. They walked for many days, carried heavy backpacks with food and weapons, slept in the woods without fire. They were strong and courageous people, who fought for Their Country.
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by JTV » 09 Sep 2011 11:49

igor_verh wrote: They were strong and courageous people, who fought for Their Country.
Some less courageous than others - I doubt repeated massacring of unarmed women and children demanded much courage:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ns#p767209

BTW: Update from the dates than that info was published - according latest info partisan units committed 45 attacks to Finnish civilian targets with total of 181 civilians killed.

Jarkko

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by igor_verh » 09 Sep 2011 12:11

War is always cruel. Finnish and german soldiers also did not differ with kindness at WW2. Сivilians were killed in all war conflicts. Some weeks ago they died in Lybia under americans bombs. And what? Where is justice?

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by JTV » 09 Sep 2011 12:43

igor_verh wrote:War is always cruel. Finnish and german soldiers also did not differ with kindness at WW2. Сivilians were killed in all warconflicts. Some weeks ago they die in Lybia under americans bomb. And what? Where is justice?
Well, one obvious moral and legal difference is if the person(s) causing deaths has malice aforethought or not. From legal viewpoint this is basically the thing that separates negligent homicide or manslaughter from premeditated murder. In a war civilians can get killed more of less accidentally or intentionally. Even since introduction of aerial bombardment civilians near bombing target have always been in danger, but their deaths are often not pre-planned nor intentional. When it comes to particular attacks committed by Soviet partisans to Finnish civilian villages the question concerning malice aforethought is pretty clear. First planning attack to civilian village with decision of not leaving survivors, then committing the act of massacre by forcing surviving civilians to kneel and then either shoot them to back of a head from point blank range or bayonetting each of them 15 - 20 times - and not doing this once, but repeating it again in one small village after another.

Jarkko
Last edited by JTV on 09 Sep 2011 16:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Mangrove » 09 Sep 2011 15:39

igor_verh wrote:Finnish and german soldiers also did not differ with kindness at WW2. Сivilians were killed in all war conflicts.
Contrast to Germans, Finnish forces did not bomb civilian targets intentionally nor did they raid villages. Though some civilians were captured behind Soviet lines, they were treated as normal POWs.

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Juha Tompuri » 15 Sep 2011 19:35

igor_verh wrote: Partisans did not take any documents, notes, newspapers etc. in raids.
A page from captured a partisan magazine (hand written to a pre-printed base) during the partisan brigade journey:
Image
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... t.#p649461

Regards, Juha

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by igor_verh » 17 Sep 2011 13:42

It's very intresting paper 8O "Combat sheet". Usually in Red Army same newspapers created by politruks (political officers) and komissars. At those papers they wrote about heroic acts or breaches of discipline by some soldiers. In partisans detachments often was harsh discipline. During the raid in 1942 nine partisans were shot by orders of brigade's command for sleeping on duty, cowardice and stealing food from comrades.

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