Grigorejev's partisan brigade

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igor_verh
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by igor_verh » 14 Jul 2013 06:11

Mangrove, Vaeltaja thanks for useful information!
Mangrove wrote: You can read Kinnari's report about the crossing by clicking the link.
Found full Kinnari's report in Rj.P 6 folder:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3096168
And ibid Perttuli's report about fight at night from 15 to 16 August near road Paatane-Kuusiniemi:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3096163
I found information about 2 POWs partisans from 1.SissiPr among Rj.P 5 documents:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3451352 - 7.9.42 Krasko Alexander Gordeevich, detachment №7
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3451344 - Nikolay Suroev(?) - probably Churuev Nikolai Ivanovich, detachment №6
Can somebody translate notes from last link, especially at 20.30 - interrogation report. It is not easy for me to understand several word from handwriting.
Thanks in advance!

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by Vaeltaja » 14 Jul 2013 08:34

Something like:
Prisoner brought to command post. Told (us) the following: Name Nikolai Surojev, from Maaselkä in Karelia, age 32-33 years, married, 5 children, mother (I guess means that family consisted of wife + 5 kids). Been to school 3 years in Karelian Maaselkä. Belonged to partisan unit from which (got/was) separated from at Vitsajärvi x=5000 y=0800. Followed the road while moving in the forest. Met heyfolk (i.e. people collecting hey from fields) on Saturday 29.8. about 9 km N of Paatene. Has eaten berries and mushrooms while on the move and also killed a moose at Salkovaara meat from which was still in the pack. Prisoner told that the partisan unit consisted from 700 men + 50 women. Led by Major Grigorijeff. Can not remember the name of the successor (i.e. second in command). Belonged to Krekola's unit. Knew (i.e. was familiar with) amongst others Smirenov from Selki, Vasiljev from Vitsajärvi both of whom belonged to his unit and had been wounded. Those wounded who could not keep up with the unit were shot (i.e. shot by partisans). Received only little (i.e. meager amounts of) food during the operation; at one point 9 days passed without food ( i guess 9 days passed between food resupply). Supplies were dropped from aircraft. Has no idea of the casualties (KIA) but figured that it had to have been a lot.

Also as to the W34/K43 issue... I think the little-Junkers (or baby-Junkers) were part of Lentolaivue 44 at the time - so i at least personally wonder a bit about the war diary marking which seemed to place them under Lentorykmentti 2. Though i suppose it could have been temporary subordinated there.

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by Mangrove » 16 Jul 2013 10:10

Some interesting photographs taken during a two-week tracking course held in Uhtua in 1944 can be found under SA-kuva N:o 158939 - 158946. Probably the same methods were also used by the Finnish trackers in 1942. The methods used by the trackers include analysing person's tracks, the composition of the ashes of a fire etc.

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by igor_verh » 02 Nov 2013 19:30

Martti Kujansuu wrote: Patrol/4.D = Hämäläinen
In the attack on Petrovskiy Jam also took part a Hämäläinen's group - was it the same person?
Mangrove wrote:SA-photographer H. Harrivirta was with the Finnish troops during the campaign. A huge number of SA-photographs, altogether 203, were taken by him and others during the fightin
Looks strange, but among these photos there is no snapshot of Grigorjev's body - the main evidence of his death. I met 3 different versions, how and by whom Grigorjev was killed. Any way, it's unusual, that brigade's commander went on the attack and only with one platoon, which was almost completely destroyed.
Finnish version:
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by Mangrove » 19 Nov 2013 19:20

igor_verh wrote: Looks strange, but among these photos there is no snapshot of Grigorjev's body - the main evidence of his death.
Most of the official SA photographs taken of Soviet bodies date to the Winter War or to 1941. An order given in August 1941 made it forbidden to portray the Soviets solely as subhumans or "russkies" by the official Finnish Defence Force photographers and writers. However, it is evident from the photographs taken during late 1941 that the order was not strictly followed until the summer of 1942.

A second order of similar nature was given in July 1944 (see e.g. "Korsu-uutisia!: rintamalehtien jatkosota" by Pilke).

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by Mangrove » 21 Feb 2014 09:38

Here are all of the summaries I found from folder T 5805/4.
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by Mangrove » 21 Feb 2014 09:39

Ibid.
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by igor_verh » 21 Feb 2014 18:53

Great job, Mangrove!
And one more page from this folder about POW partisan from 1.SissiPr., but not so informative as previous:
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by igor_verh » 06 Mar 2014 18:08

Hi, question about number of finnish troops, which took part in the operation:
how many soldiers (approximately) were in 2th and 4th batallions of 12th finnish brigade, 4th cavalry squadron, Rj.P.6 and in patrols from 4.D?
According different soviet sources, against 1st Partisan brigade fought from 2500 to 5000 "best jaegers". Partisan's detachments had the structure as usual Red Army company - 3 platoons in each, total about 90-113 men. But in finnish company were 4 platoons, how many soldiers were in a platoon and in a company, squadron, long range patrol?
Really finns were able to gather all units together only at 16 August near Shalgovaara. At that time they had a real chance to finally destroy partisan brigade, but didn't use their advantage.
And also some more question about POWs: at folders of finnish 14.Division (folders T-4547/4 & T-5972/6 - tiedustelu toimisto) I found interrogation reports of soviet soldiers captured in 1942 on Rukajärvi direction and some their cards, were it standart for all finnish army? Can anyone find number of same folders from Maselgskaya Army group in National archive, which can contain the similar information about POWs, who were captured in 1942?
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by Mangrove » 06 Mar 2014 18:28

igor_verh wrote: how many soldiers (approximately) were in 2th and 4th batallions of 12th finnish brigade, 4th cavalry squadron, Rj.P.6 and in patrols from 4.D?
Rj.P.6 had 24 officers, 92 NCOs and 459 men (= 575) at the front line on 14 January 1942.
igor_verh wrote:I found interrogation reports of soviet soldiers captured in 1942 on Rukajärvi direction and some their cards, were it standart for all finnish army?
Interrogation summaries in form of index cards do date back to the Winter War. However, the version shown on your photograph was taken into during the Continuation War, I think.

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade

Post by igor_verh » 02 Sep 2014 13:01

Mangrove wrote: Among items listed on the report are camouflaged suits and leggings and American laced shoes
Some partisans had an american boots, which were made by BFG Goodrich:
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Juha Tompuri » 11 Feb 2015 18:31

igor_verh wrote:
Martti Kujansuu wrote:
-no captured pistols or revolvers mentioned - perhaps taken as personal souvenirs (as mentioned at the original link)
This table from report of komissar Aristov (sept. 1942), we can see how many weapon was lost during raid. Also it can gives an idea about the approximate number of partisans who returned from raid.
Image
So... no German machine guns (as mentioned at Finnish report) at that raid?
And... did they have the MG-34 at all?
Juha Tompuri wrote:
JTV wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote: So... if the 1942 MG-34(s) were not from Germany, wonder what was the source then? Perhaps (re)captured from Soviet Union?
It is practically impossible to say for sure how single individual weapon may have ended up to some specific country.
Doesn't make big difference, but there seems to me two different MG-34s at the depot photos.

JTV wrote:(Re)captured from the Soviets would be quite possible. It is known that the Soviets issued captured weapons to some of their units operating in Finnish - Soviet front, with this being the likely source also for Polish BAR seen in the same photographs. IMO early 1942 would be late enough for re-captured MG-34 to possibly ending up in Finnish hands.
Yep, I was thinking about the Soviet partisans, like the partisan Brigade http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3071390 and the weapons captured from them:
There being mentioned 7 German LMGs and 36 magazines being captured.
However not being totally convinced about the guns, they might also have been German caliber (Polish wz.28) guns, a type the partisans verified had at their inventory.
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/f ... ?id=264248


Regards, Juha

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by igor_verh » 06 Jun 2015 20:45

Juha Tompuri wrote: So... no German machine guns (as mentioned at Finnish report) at that raid?
And... did they have the MG-34 at all?
Hi, really I didn't meet any information about using german MG-34 in 1st Partisan brigade, in partisan's memories there are mentions only about DP-27 and "Browning", probably, M1928 model (caliber 7.92*57).
Some types of ammunition (5.6 mm, 7.62 TT, 7.62 Mosin-Nagant, 7.92 Mauser), which were found among the remains of partisans, KIA during the raid:
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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by Juha Tompuri » 07 Jun 2015 22:47

igor_verh wrote:Hi, really I didn't meet any information about using german MG-34 in 1st Partisan brigade, in partisan's memories there are mentions only about DP-27 and "Browning", probably, M1928 model (caliber 7.92*57).
Thanks.
igor_verh wrote:Some types of ammunition (5.6 mm, 7.62 TT, 7.62 Mosin-Nagant, 7.92 Mauser), which were found among the remains of partisans, KIA during the raid:
Are there any photos of the partisan 5,6mm (22LR Geco rifles?) weapons?

Regards, Juha

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Re: Grigorejev's partisan brigade, resurrecting old thread

Post by igor_verh » 09 Jun 2015 13:26

Juha Tompuri wrote:
igor_verh wrote:Some types of ammunition (5.6 mm, 7.62 TT, 7.62 Mosin-Nagant, 7.92 Mauser), which were found among the remains of partisans, KIA during the raid:
Are there any photos of the partisan 5,6mm (22LR Geco rifles?) weapons?

Regards, Juha
There are no any photos of partisans with weapons 22LR cal., but with a high probability it can be argued that it were TOZ-8 or TOZ-9 rifles (ТОЗ-8 и ТОЗ-9), which used before war for hunt and competitions. These rifles were produced in USSR from 1932 (TOZ-8) and 1935 (TOZ-9). Even in tutorial "Partisan's satellite" ("Спутник партизана", 1941 год) there is a description of these rifles (http://static.my-shop.ru/product/pdf/119/1186412.pdf - on page 22).

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