Beheadings in the Third Reich

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
Post Reply
Pete26
Member
Posts: 3108
Joined: 26 Aug 2007, 03:19
Location: USA

French resistance fighters executed in Ploetzensee prison

#6631

Post by Pete26 » 11 Nov 2018, 04:43

Georges Berthe, age 27, 2 February 1944

Jean Boutin, age 22, 25 August 1944

Louis Cognard, age 22, 25 August 1944

Jean Le Corre, age 26, 29 September 1944

Eugene Croze, age 24, 8 September 1943

Andre Dupuis, age 23, 6 August 1944

Bernhard Francois, age 24, 11 July 1944

Marcel Gerbohay, age 25, 9 April 1943

Lucien Girardet, age 24, 29 September 1944

Maurice Hachet, age 23, 25 August 1944

Robert Herrou, age 23, 9 May 1944

Juliette Kaechelli, age 21, 2 October 1942

Carlos Leon, age 35, 27 October 1942

Johann Londott, age 68, 22 February 1942

Andre Maire, age 22, 13 April 1945

Josef Musilli, age 22, 2 February 1944

Moritz Parisot, age 22, 8 September 1943

Andre Peltier, age 21, 29 September 1944

Georg Ponchel, age 43, 11 May 1943

Maurice Tessier, age 38, 8 September 1943

Georges Vasible, age 26, 15 December 1944

Pete26
Member
Posts: 3108
Joined: 26 Aug 2007, 03:19
Location: USA

Memorial tablet for Slovenian resistance fighters

#6632

Post by Pete26 » 13 Nov 2018, 00:49

They were all guillotined at Vienna Regional court, hence the inscription "Obglavljeni na Dunaju" which means "Beheaded on the Danube".


memorialtablet2.png


All of these individuals are listed in the "Die Guillotinierten" book as executed on 29 April 1943. Some of the names are spelled somewhat differently, either they are misspelled, or Germanized, or both.

Johann Doujak

Franz Gregoritsch

Florian Kelich

Ulrich Kelich

Franz Pristunek

Georg Pasterk

Franz Weinzirl

29 people were guillotined on 29 April 1943 at Vienna Regional Court.


User avatar
K.Kocjancic
Member
Posts: 6788
Joined: 27 Mar 2003, 20:57
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: Memorial tablet for Slovenian resistance fighters

#6633

Post by K.Kocjancic » 13 Nov 2018, 09:34

Pete26 wrote:
13 Nov 2018, 00:49
They were all guillotined at Vienna Regional court, hence the inscription "Obglavljeni na Dunaju" which means "Beheaded on the Danube".



memorialtablet2.png



All of these individuals are listed in the "Die Guillotinierten" book as executed on 29 April 1943. Some of the names are spelled somewhat differently, either they are misspelled, or Germanized, or both.

Johann Doujak

Franz Gregoritsch

Florian Kelich

Ulrich Kelich

Franz Pristunek

Georg Pasterk

Franz Weinzirl

29 people were guillotined on 29 April 1943 at Vienna Regional Court.
Just a small correction - it means "Beheaded in Vienna" (Dunaj is Slovene name for Vienna; Donava for Danube). Thanks for sharing this!

KK

history1
Banned
Posts: 4095
Joined: 31 Oct 2005, 10:12
Location: Austria

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6634

Post by history1 » 13 Nov 2018, 17:22

I don´t see any misspelled names except "Weinzirl" in your list, the files on doew.at are stating "Weinzierl".
There are also six "Doujak" and two "Dovjak" in the database, all from the Zell and Eisenkappel area (Borovlje = Ferlach).
Franc (Franz) and Florijan (Florian) is only written differently in Slowenian, but spelled the same way as in German. The given name of the others are transcribed in your book.
The Slovenian "h" is spelled like the German "ch" hence no wonder about the different writing. Same is valid for the letter "č" = "tsch".
This info from DÖW might be also of interest:
Image
"The farmer Franz (Franc) Weinzierl (1st from left) supported Carinthian partisans in the Bad Eisenkappel-Zell area. He was one of the 35 defendants, against whom the People's Court from April 7-9, 1943 in Klagenfurt helt trials.
Weinzierl and twelve other defendants were sentenced to death and executed on April 29, 1943 in the Vienna Regional Court."

Pete26
Member
Posts: 3108
Joined: 26 Aug 2007, 03:19
Location: USA

Re: Memorial tablet for Slovenian resistance fighters

#6635

Post by Pete26 » 15 Nov 2018, 06:21

K.Kocjancic wrote:
13 Nov 2018, 09:34
Pete26 wrote:
13 Nov 2018, 00:49
They were all guillotined at Vienna Regional court, hence the inscription "Obglavljeni na Dunaju" which means "Beheaded on the Danube".



memorialtablet2.png



All of these individuals are listed in the "Die Guillotinierten" book as executed on 29 April 1943. Some of the names are spelled somewhat differently, either they are misspelled, or Germanized, or both.

Johann Doujak

Franz Gregoritsch

Florian Kelich

Ulrich Kelich

Franz Pristunek

Georg Pasterk

Franz Weinzirl

29 people were guillotined on 29 April 1943 at Vienna Regional Court.
Just a small correction - it means "Beheaded in Vienna" (Dunaj is Slovene name for Vienna; Donava for Danube). Thanks for sharing this!

KK
Thanks for the explanation. A while ago I posted another memorial tablet with six other Slovenians beheaded at the same place on the same day. I made the same mistake translating the inscription.

I also provided a complete list of 29 people beheaded on 29 April 1943 in Vienna.

Arthar, Georg

Appel, Franziska

Blauensteiner, Leopold

Bradzil, Alois

Doujak, Johann

Dallinger, Johann

Griessl, Friedrich

Grah, Ernst

Gregoritsch, Franz

Hebrich, Anna

Hebrich, Leopold

Kelich, Ullrich

Kelich, Florian

Kosjek, Walter

Langer, Franz

Olipp, Maria (spelled Olip, Micka on the memorial plaque)

Olipp, Thomas (spelled Olip Tomaz on the memorial plaque)

Orasche, Barthol (spelled Oraze Jernej on the memorial plaque)

Orasche, Jacob (spelled Oraze Jakob on the memorial plaque)

Orasche, Johann (spelled Oraze Janez on the memorial plaque)

Pospichil, Ulrich

Pasterk, Georg

Pristunek, Franz

Rousek, Ernst

Seninger, Johann

Strasser, Leopold

Schupanz, Michael (spelled Zupanc Miha on the memorial plaque)

Toth, Stephan

Weinzirl, Franz

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35191&p=1875103&hil ... l#p1875103

Image

I am not sure who the executioner was. Most likely Johann Reichhart, but possibly Alois Weiss who started taking over Vienna Regional Court executions at some point after being appointed Panrkac prison executioner. However, Alois Weiss's first execution in Prague Pankrac prison was on 5 April 1943, so most likely he did not travel to Vienna so early in his career. Either way, the executioner and his assistants made a lot of money that day. The executioner's take was 40 Reichmarks for the first head, then 30 Reichmarks for each additional head for a total of 880 Reichsmarks.


The fallbeil blade was most likely somewhat dull towards the end of the execution session that day and had to be resharpened for future executions.

From the information I found, a freshly sharpened blade was good for about 30 executions.

Pete26
Member
Posts: 3108
Joined: 26 Aug 2007, 03:19
Location: USA

Germanization of names of foreign nationals

#6636

Post by Pete26 » 15 Nov 2018, 06:49

Here is a good example how names of beheaded victims were Germanized. The names of these Czech victims are spelled correctly in the right column. Compare to Germanized versions of their names in the left column of the notice.

Image


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... í_říše.gif

therilla
New member
Posts: 1
Joined: 14 Dec 2018, 14:55
Location: California- USA

Re: Beheadings in Third Reich

#6637

Post by therilla » 20 Dec 2018, 04:32

gordon anderson wrote:
20 Apr 2008, 21:18
Thanks for posting the YOUTUBE address . It was good to see Monsieur Meyssonnier again . When I was the guest of Fernand and his wife , the wonderful Simone , we had a grand time inspite of the fact that the temperature was 119 degrees-----It was the end of August and the heat and humidity were ungodly. But what a memorable visit we had. He had pulled out all his rare papers and his photos for me and piled the long dining room table high with them .

Down in the dark cool celler, those familiar tall posts rested against the wall in the corner beside the heavy bases , a large group of iron angle supports leaning against them. When I opened the wicker body basket-- the panier-- I found inside were kept the lunettes and the chapiteaus with the pulleys on top, the bascules and thier supports, as well as the ropes.

On a old metal shelf I caught a glint from what I thought might be glass, a reflection emanating from under a dust cloth which was covering something. The form was cylindrical ---- the size reminded me of a wide jar--- like a speciman might be kept in ----perhaps.

Fernand asked me ," Gordon , do you have any idea what could be under this cloth?" I said, We-e-l-l-l- , I think I might have a pretty good idea. Quickly, like a magician Fernand whisked the cloth away. . . . . . . . !!!!

I had guessed correctly---- and I was stunned. . . . .
Gordon,
Did you happen to see an axe in the basement>? Or did he mention anything about a goosewing long ash haft axe he had on display at the meuseum?

Thanks,
Chris

gordon anderson
Member
Posts: 235
Joined: 06 May 2005, 02:27
Location: Hollywood California

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6638

Post by gordon anderson » 07 Jan 2019, 04:14

Hello Chris, No I saw no axe at all. I saw a thin wooden case with a metal template or pattern to use to copy a blade. He told me that the blade in Algiers never had to be sharpened-. Which I didn't believe of course. He told many tall tales. Such as he never let go of the ears after the head was severed but gently laid it down. I said I doubted that, as the mouton in back--- on the head side---extended out from the back of the blade by 4 inches on the head side. Enough to hit the area of the ears and the mouton slamming down would have hit and smashed and severely damaged his hands. He smiled sheepishly.

User avatar
fredric
Member
Posts: 977
Joined: 03 Dec 2004, 05:19
Location: USA Princeton

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6639

Post by fredric » 08 Jan 2019, 00:27

M. Meysonnier I believe was a delightful person who unlike many executioners, did talk and sometimes spectacularly about his
experiences. Mr. Anderson enjoyed a great time with Fernand and Simone who must have been splendid hosts.
Like many on this Forum, I have read Fernand's book. He gives much detailed information (such as how to erect the bois de justice)
but questionable his technique of pulling the head out by the ears and yelling "yes' to his father as
a signal to release the blade.... well, it would be an invitation to a beheading and finger removal or crushing fingers.

An accident like this did happen to a member of Scharfrichter Frederich Hehr's team. The assistant grabbed the head, pulling
it forward and the heavy sledge fell but his thumb was in the blade's path. Thus one thumb and one head sliced.
A fellow assistant (Willi Rottger!) rushed the thumbless guy to a hospital.

The guy eventually died of blood poisoning.

Pete26
Member
Posts: 3108
Joined: 26 Aug 2007, 03:19
Location: USA

Italian guillotine

#6640

Post by Pete26 » 09 Jan 2019, 05:14

Italian guillotine exhibited in the Criminalogy Museum in Rome, Italy. Note that the blade edge is horizontal, not angled like on most other guillotines. Also note two wood block spacers holding up the blade and its weight. Without the spacers there would be no gap between the lower lunette and the blade. There is no upper lunette part on this guillotine. This guillotine was used by the executioner Giovanni Battista Bugatti to execute numerous prisoners.

This guillotine is different from two other guillotines in the same museum. The other guillotines have full lunettes, but still use a horizontal edge blade.


Italian guillotine.jpg
Italian guillotine.jpg (35.53 KiB) Viewed 1809 times
Image


http://blog.zingarate.com/romamor/wp-co ... i-roma.jpg

User avatar
fredric
Member
Posts: 977
Joined: 03 Dec 2004, 05:19
Location: USA Princeton

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6641

Post by fredric » 09 Jan 2019, 05:51

Crude cleavers.

User avatar
Kiwi Gumbootz
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 02:16
Location: New Zealand

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6642

Post by Kiwi Gumbootz » 10 Jan 2019, 02:26

Where There High Ranking German Generals Beheaded in WW 2 ( Names ??? )

Pete26
Member
Posts: 3108
Joined: 26 Aug 2007, 03:19
Location: USA

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6643

Post by Pete26 » 10 Jan 2019, 05:12

Kiwi Gumbootz wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 02:26
Where There High Ranking German Generals Beheaded in WW 2 ( Names ??? )
More than 80 German generals were executed by Hitler after the failed assassination plot in July of 1944. However, to my knowledge most of these generals were either shot at various sites or hanged in Ploetzensee prison. Hanging was considered a more humiliating form of execution and therefore most assassination plot conspirators were condemned to die in this way.

I do not know of any German generals who were beheaded. Some high ranking civilian politicians such as Eugen Bolz were beheaded.

The usual execution method for members of the German military was shooting. However, a lot of low rank military members were beheaded during WWII, especially for desertion. Dortmund and Halle were typical execution sites that beheaded quite a few military deserters, or civilians who refused to serve in German military due to their religious beliefs.

User avatar
fredric
Member
Posts: 977
Joined: 03 Dec 2004, 05:19
Location: USA Princeton

Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6644

Post by fredric » 10 Jan 2019, 06:37

Pete's comments concur with my research.

Perhaps the following might be of interest:

I could not name a German General having been beheaded by the RMJ.
Many military officials were. We know many German General staff were strangled on the rope in Plotzensee.
We will never know all the facts here.

After that "first tier" of higher level conspirators were hanged, so many of their
associates were executed. Perhaps they faced the fallbeil?

Also, the SS or Gestapo would deliver "nach und nebel" prisoners concurrent to
executions following a "round" of beheadings at Plotzensee... this was seen as an intrusion by the scharfrichter. And he
might not be paid!

I have a source describing the transport of lower level including enlisted military personnel, condemned I assume by the RMJ Berlin or may the
military, who were heading for the fallbeil.

I have a secondary source which describes Reichhart offering to Allied authorities that he knows all the techniques of
execution including shooting. He is "applying for a job"! Reichhart wanted money after the War and had one capability...
executions by guillotine, rope or even (he insinuates) by
shooting.

Deserters in the field, faced a "field court marshal" trial and quick execution. Military personnel committing State or civil capital crimes
probably were beheaded at Dortmund, Halle, Brandenburg-Gordon and Plotzensee.

Pete26
Member
Posts: 3108
Joined: 26 Aug 2007, 03:19
Location: USA

Adrien De Groote

#6645

Post by Pete26 » 12 Jan 2019, 06:42

Adrien De Groote.jpg
Adrien De Groote was a Belgian resistance fighter. He was beheaded in Dortmund on 10 March1944.
Adrien de Groote
De Grote gehörte zu den letzten belgischen Opfern in Dortmund. Er wurde am 10.3.1944 enthauptet. Geboren wurde er am 15. Okt. 1910 in Destelbergen. Er besuchte das königliche Gymnasium in Gent. Er übte den Beruf des Gerichtsvollziehers aus und war Notar zur Anstellung. 1940 kämpfte er als Flaksoldat bei Dünkirchen und wird verwundet. Er wollte die Kapitulation nicht hinnehmen und gründete zusammen mit Kameraden die Widerstandsorganisation "La Ligue des V" und wurde Mitarbeiter des SRA (Service de Renseignements et d'Action). Unter dem Decknamen Monsieur Jean" war er führend am Ausbau der Widerstandsorganisation beteiligt, die seit Anfang 1941 Sendekontakt mit London hatte. Den Deutschen gelang es aber in das innere Gefüge der Organisation einzudringen und 45 Personen festzunehmen. Unter der verhafteten Führern befand sich auch A. d. Groote . Er kommt in das Gefängnis von Gent und wird lange Wochen verhört und gefoltert ohne etwas zu verraten. Am 30. Juli wird er in das Gefängnis Bochum überstellt, Anfang Mai 1943 nach Esterwegen. Bei Verhandlung vor dem SG Essen/Sitz Esterwegen am 18. Dezember 1943 nimmt er alle Verantwortung auf sich, um Kameraden zu entlasten, da er weiß, dass ihm das Todesurteil sicher ist. Er wird ebenfalls posthum Ritter des Ordens Leopold II. In seinem Geburtsort ist eine Straße nach ihm benannt.
Translated:
Adrien de Groote
De Grote was one of the last Belgian victims in Dortmund. He was beheaded on March 10, 1944. He was born on 15. Oct. 1910 in Destelbergen. He attended the Royal High School in Ghent. He practiced the profession of bailiff and was a notary for employment. In 1940 he fought as a flak soldier at Dunkirk and is wounded. He refused to accept the surrender and founded together with his comrades the resistance organization "La Ligue des V" and became an employee of the SRA (Service de Renseignements et d'Action). Under the code name Monsieur Jean, he was a leading force in the expansion of the resistance organization, which had been in contact with London since the beginning of 1941. However, the Germans succeeded in penetrating the internal structure of the organization and arresting 45 people. He arrives in the Ghent prison and is interrogated and tortured for many weeks without giving anything away.On July 30 he is transferred to Bochum Prison, to Esterwegen at the beginning of May 1943. At trial in front of SG Essen / Esterwegen On December 18, 1943, he takes all responsibility to relieve comrades, as he knows that the death sentence is certain.He is also posthumously given the Knight of the Order Leopold II. In his birthplace, a street is named after him.
http://www.herinneringmemoire.be/docume ... rtmund.htm

Post Reply

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”