The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

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domnuprofesor
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The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by domnuprofesor » 13 Aug 2019 09:51

The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored murder of entire groups determined by heredity. This applied to Jews, Gypsies, and the handicapped.

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The genocidal killing of lebensunwertes Leben (those unworthy of existence) in Nazi Germany began not with the Jews but with the euthanasia meted out to the mentally and physically disabled, in total around 212,000 Germans and 80,000 others. The mentally ill were also killed in converted shower rooms, which provided the inspiration for what would eventually take place in the Auschwitz concentration camp. It is true that as many as a thousand Jews were murdered in German concentration camps in the six months after the Jewish pogroms of Kristallnacht on the night of 9 November 1938, but it was not until 1939 that the true extent of the Nazis’ plans for the Jewish race in Europe began to become apparent. Fortunately by then over half of the Jewish population of Germany had already emigrated, going to the USA, Argentina, Britain, Palestine, South Africa and Australia. Tragically, many also left for places such as Poland, France and the Netherlands that were to afford no long-term safety at all.

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The unexpected defeat in the First World War, the abdication of the Kaiser, the threat of Communist revolution, the humiliation of the Versailles Treaty, and the prospect of huge reparations payments to the Western Allies all weighed heavily on Germans. German Jews, who numbered slightly more than half a million, made up less than 1 percent of the population in the 1920s, and were clearly oriented to the liberal-left wing of German politics. They had little political influence, but were disproportionately prominent in publishing, journalism, the arts, the free professions, trade, private banking, and commerce, including the ownership of department stores, which began to develop at this time. Middle-class anti-Semitism in Germany was undoubtedly stimulated by professional jealousy and envy. It was also nourished by the intensive post-1918 propaganda of anti-Semitic organizations that branded Jews with the stigma of wartime profiteering, black-market dealings, stock-exchange speculation, and responsibility for defeat in the war.

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In the 1930 elections, the Nazi movement leaped dramatically from 12 to 107 seats (18.3 percent of the total) in the Reichstag, making it the second largest party. In July 1932, the Nazis definitively emerged as the biggest party in the Reichstag, with 37.3 percent of the vote (230 seats), which was their peak performance under strictly democratic conditions. The staggering shift in their fortunes had coincided with their emergence as a catchall party appealing to the unifying ideal of Volksgemeinschaft (national community). They appeared to be a movement that, unlike all its rivals, was able to transcend regional, class, religious, and party barriers.

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For the complete illustrated walkthrough on The Holocaust visit https://en.historylapse.org/the-holocaust

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Sergey Romanov » 13 Aug 2019 10:15

It only applies to Jews, but even if you don't think so, it's curious that you mention the Roma and the disabled but omit the second most-murdered group: the Soviet POWs.

> but it was not until 1939 that the true extent of the Nazis’ plans for the Jewish race in Europe began to become apparent.

Not until 1941-42.

In 1939 there were still no extermination plans.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Gorque » 13 Aug 2019 19:22

domnuprofesor wrote:
13 Aug 2019 09:51

The staggering shift in their fortunes had coincided with their emergence as a catchall party appealing to the unifying ideal of Volksgemeinschaft (national community).
I could have sworn it was due to the Great Depression and the N.S.D.A.P. highlighting the other parties failure in preventing it.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Cantankerous » 02 Sep 2019 20:28

I'm curious. When did the term holocaust start to be used for the Nazi annihilation of Jews, Poles, Gypsies, and homosexuals? If the word "holocaust" means "whole fire", historians could presume that Holocaust became an epithet for this dark chapter in the history of the Jewish people because Hitler saw cremating Jews in crematoriums as essential to destroying European Jews in their entirety.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Gorque » 03 Sep 2019 00:35

While almost synonamous, do not equate the term Holocaust with Endlösung as the latter was much worse.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Sergey Romanov » 03 Sep 2019 09:05

The moment Endlösung turned from deportation to extermination some time in 1941, it became a part of the Holocaust, so from this point on the Holocaust was at least as bad as Endlösung.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Sergey Romanov » 03 Sep 2019 09:08

Cantankerous wrote:
02 Sep 2019 20:28
I'm curious. When did the term holocaust start to be used for the Nazi annihilation of Jews, Poles, Gypsies, and homosexuals? If the word "holocaust" means "whole fire", historians could presume that Holocaust became an epithet for this dark chapter in the history of the Jewish people because Hitler saw cremating Jews in crematoriums as essential to destroying European Jews in their entirety.
Hitler didn't view "cremating Jews in crematoriums as essential to destroying European Jews in their entirety" and in fact I'm not aware of Hitler ever mentioning crematoria, but to answer your question:

http://www.berkeleyinternet.com/holocaust/

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Nautilus » 09 Sep 2019 19:18

1. Not only "Holocaust" did not refer to cremation, but, in practice, cremation had not even been used during the times the mass murder was in full swing (June 1941 to late 1942). Mass burials were used. Sonderaktion 1005 introduced mass cremation to erase the traces of mass murder.

2. In the Western world, "holocaust" as a great destruction by fire has been used up to the 1970s. A great fire in a city was "a holocaust". Only as of 1978 it began to be systematically used to describe mass killing in camps.

3. Jews have little use for the word, they use mostly "Shoah", the Roma use "Porajmos". Soviet media talked of "Fascist crimes". Insistent use of "Holocaust" (capital) is a modern-day, post-1990 phenomenon.

4. Most earlier, pre-1980, information concerning mass murder in the media had been twisted by Cold War politics and sensationalism - it revolved around the image of the 1944 Auschwitz and/or concentration camps as emptied by the Death Marches.

This is natural. Only sources of information publicly available were the Nuremberg Trials and survivor testimonies.

Which existed because there were survivors. Former Häftlings who escaped from Auschwitz, Buchenwald or Mauthausen, former Soviet soldiers who escaped into the forests, former forced laborers who endured enough to be liberated. Even from Goeth's Płaszów camp, monstrous as it was, still there were survivors by the hundreds.

Barely anyone survived Aktion Reinhard.

So, in popular media, "Fascist crimes" may conjure the image of sadistic guardsmen tormenting and shooting Häftlings with their handguns. Or emaciated, skeletal people worked and starved to death, abused by mad doctors with needles and scalpels. Or herding a few thousands of people in a field and machine-gunning them. And all of them, real as they were, still lag behind liquidating people by gas and bullet in the first 2 hours from their arrival. Somehow, Wirth's men managed to kill so efficiently to surpass all other methods of murder ever invented.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by michael mills » 10 Sep 2019 00:53

The moment Endlösung turned from deportation to extermination some time in 1941
Questionable.

For example, the German Jews deported to Minsk in November 1941 were not killed until July 1942. Those deported to Riga from the beginning of December 1941 until the end of January 1942 were also not killed on arrival but housed in the Riga Ghetto and various camps; they were subject to occasional culling, but a substantial number were still alive in the summer of 1944, when they were evacuated by ship to Stutthof.

Another example is the German Jews deported to Lodz in October 1941 and housed in the ghetto there through the winter of 1941-1942; their extermination at the Chelmno death-camp did not begin until May 1942, although the culling of the local Jews of Reichsgau Wartheland (a quota of 100,000, or about one-third of the total number of Jews of that province) had commenced at the end of 1941.

Yet another example is provided by the 11 transports of Jews from Slovakia that arrived at Auschwitz between 26 March and 20 June 1942; none of them was subjected to selection, and all the transportees were registered in the camp.

Those examples show that as of the end of 1941, no decision for the comprehensive extermination of all Jews under German control had yet been made by the German Government (if indeed it was ever made). All extermination actions carried out during 1941 and the early part of 1942 were localised and limited in scope; the largest such action was the mass killing of Soviet Jews, which was undertaken within the context of the war of destruction against Bolshevism, which was widely seen by European conservatives as a Jewish creation.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by michael mills » 10 Sep 2019 01:48

the euthanasia meted out to the mentally and physically disabled, in total around 212,000 Germans and 80,000 others.
Those numbers are questionable.

There is no documentary evidence for the figure 212,000 Germans subjected to the Euthanasia action. That figure is a calculation, derived by comparing the recorded total of inmates of German psychiatric institutions in 1939 with the total in those same institutions in 1945, a very imprecise method that takes no account of factors such as releases or transfers.

The only documented number of victims of the Euthanasia action is an official report dating from August 191, listing the numbers euthanased at each of the six Euthanasia Institutes in both 1940 and 1941, and giving an overall total of 70,000. That document is complemented by another document from 1939, the record of a meeting of mental health administrators held in that year which determined a formula for selecting patients in long-term institutional care to be subjected to euthanasia. The formula set at that meeting yields at total of about 70,000 victims, which supports the thesis that the Euthanasia Action was terminated in August 1941 when the preset total of 70,000 was reached, and was not a result of public protests as is commonly believed.

Thus, the only reliable figure for the total number of victims of the Euthanasia Action is 70,000. The actual total must be somewhat higher, since it is known that administrators of mental hospitals continued killing patients on their own authority without any official sanction, the so-called "wild euthanasia". However, there are no reliable figures for the number of victims of the "wild euthanasia", and given the haphazard way that action was carried out the numbers of mental patients killed in hospitals after August 1941 cannot have been very great, certainly nowhere near142,000 (ie 212,00 less 70,000).

The above figures do not include concentration camp inmates sent to the Euthanasia centres after the ending of the Euthanasia Action in August 1941, in the context of the Sonderbehandlung 14f13, which continued until April 1943. Those were not disabled persons, patients in institutional care, but prisoners who had become too sick and weak to be used for labour.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by SloveneLiberal » 10 Sep 2019 13:18

michael mills wrote:
10 Sep 2019 01:48

The above figures do not include concentration camp inmates sent to the Euthanasia centres after the ending of the Euthanasia Action in August 1941, in the context of the Sonderbehandlung 14f13, which continued until April 1943. Those were not disabled persons, patients in institutional care, but prisoners who had become too sick and weak to be used for labour.


Yes euthanasia continued in concentration camps at least in the years 1941/42. In Dachau concentration camp for example 2674 prisoners deemed as no longer capable of work were selected by Nazi doctors ( before involved with euthanasia program of mental patients ) and sent to Hartheim castle near Linz Austria where they were killed with poisones gas.

The Dachau concentration camp, 1933-1945, published in 2005 by Comite International de Dachau, page 134.
Last edited by SloveneLiberal on 10 Sep 2019 13:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by SloveneLiberal » 10 Sep 2019 13:30

However with the idea that SS mass killings of Jews in SU in 1941 were not yet part of holocaust i do not agree. We can not say that this was some kind of fight against communism because antisemits saw Jews as responsible for communism. First it is not a sane idea to have Jews collectively responsible for communism if some Jews were members of communist party. We all know that others were even persecuted by communists in SU. Only because of Nazi racial ideology they were able to ''justify'' mass killings of Jews. Because they are like ''all evil and than of course they want to pollute German blood and are in favour also of evil communism''.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Sergey Romanov » 10 Sep 2019 14:26

It was certainly a part of the Holocaust, nobody credible doubts that.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Nautilus » 10 Sep 2019 18:08

SloveneLiberal wrote:
10 Sep 2019 13:30
However with the idea that SS mass killings of Jews in SU in 1941 were not yet part of holocaust i do not agree.
The mass killings of Jews, Communists and others in the SU ("Holocaust by bullet") and the maltreatment to death of Soviet POWs actually killed the majority of people massacred against the law throughout the Reich's existence. More than half of all deaths happened between June 1941 and December 1942. Aktion Reinhard camps were built and began killing after the spring of 1942, so almost a full year the massacre had been perpetrated with "hands-on" means.

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Re: The term 'holocaust' means 'whole burnt offering' - an illustrated walkthrough

Post by Gorque » 11 Sep 2019 02:29

Hi Michael Mills:

I haven't read any of your posts in a while and had thought the worst had come to you. I'm glad to see it hasn't.

Have you been doing the geezer thing and traveling the world? :)

Regarding your post on the murder of the Eastern Jewish mothers and children: I seriously doubt that political motives can be ascribed to non-majority aged children, let alone those who have just achieved the age of majority. As regards to the mothers of the murdred and those themselves soon to be murdered, we are talking about a male dominated Jewish culture, not just in Eastern Europe, but of a world that in the western cultures had just recently achieved female emancipation..... need I go on? To cut to the chase, their murder, IMHO, was not motivated by political considerations, but by racial ones.

BTW, and I may be digressing, but didn't the massacres that occured in Latvia and Lithuania in '41 have to do with making room for German expelleees? And if so, would that be concomitant to having to massacring(sp) the German expellees; for if'nt they hadn't, where would they, the (German's) Nazi's, have housed the newly arrived expellees?

I look forward to your reply.

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