SS/SD uniform

[Carlus]

Hi everyone, I have a question about SS and Sipo SD uniform: I found a war picture depicting a german NCO of an Einsatzkommando in Lithuania. His name his Martin Weiss and he operated in Vilna under the local KdS. (If you text his name on Google you can easily find the pic in question)

What I recalled about his uniform is the classic SD grey jacket with blank black collar on the right and the SS insignia on the left. Nonetheless Weiss came from the Waffen SS. So shouldn't he wear the classic Waffen SS field uniform with the the "SS" runes on the right collar instead of the blank patch?

P.S.
I tried to upload the photo of Weiss in uniform under this link but
it seems I can't.

[steve248]

Martin Weiss was demobilized by SS-VT in Aug 1940. In Feb 1941 he was called up to Grenzpolizeischule Pretzsch for training and assignment with the Grenzpolizei. With the formation of the Einsatzgruppe in Pretzsch in May-June 1941 he was assigned to EK 3 as a Waffen-SS reservist. So he wore the field grey uniform like everyone in the unit.

[Carlus]

Hi Steve
If you look better at his uniform you can note he wears the SD uniform with no white "SS" Sieg rune logo on the right collar patch and this is strange since all the Waffen SS members usually wore that uniform.
Perhaps the WSS reservists had a different uniforms? Or, when members of an Einsatzkommando, they were all given the SIPO-SD uniform?

[steve248]

As I said in my post, they all wore the same field-grey uniform. I have no idea about the collar patches.

[von thoma]

In Feb 1941 he was called up to Grenzpolizeischule Pretzsch for training and assignment with the Grenzpolizei.

Martin Weiss possibly wears a Grenzpolizei uniform on this particular picture.
Similar insignia were used by SD/Sipo

[Carlus]

Sorry guys but I fear you didn't catch the point of my question (that is indeed very technical). Why a Waffen SS soldier should wear a Sipo SD or Grenzpolizei uniform?
I know Weiss was demobilized before the attack on USSR, but he remained by fact a member of military SS organization; so he should wear Waffen SS ordinance uniform.

[Peter]

Hi Carlus
During wartime virtually all arms of the SS wore the standard field grey uniform, that is not a Waffen SS uniform, the W-SS were one arm of the SS who used the standard field grey uniform.

A blank collar patch (without SS runes) does not mean that he was SD, the blank patch was also worn by a number of arms of the SS.

The twisted waffenfarbe on his epaulettes shows that he is a security policeman. So the picture here shows him in standard wartime SS grey uniform as he was a serving member of the Grenzpolizei (a branch of the SS), he might be a Waffen SS reservist but he was serving full time in the Grenzpolizei so would wear that uniform without the runes.

In a similar manner a member of SD who was a German Navy reservist called up for duty with Kriegsmarine would wear the Kriegsmarine uniform because he was serving in that capacity.

[Carlus]

Thanks, Peter!

[Tom3277]

Good Morning,

I apologize in advance if wrong but I seem to recall the Grenzpolizei was under Gestapo control so basically depending by the Sipo, correct?

According to the researches published on our book "Globocnik's Men in Italy", for unknown reasons (possibly a trick linked to international rights matters or to the law of war adopted in order to disguise Sipo elements outside the Reich?), seems like the SD-raute was used also by some of the members of the Sipo attached to the Einsatzkommandos in the East.

Hope this can help.

Regards
Tom