Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

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Orlov
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Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Orlov » 24 May 2020 13:48

Just found in net - The finale of a war criminal’s existence: mysteries surrounding Oskar Dirlewanger’s death. Suspicions regarding killers (Polnische Wachmannschaft) - unfortunately no confirmation by veterans: https://rcin.org.pl/dlibra/publication/ ... ion/116922
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Arto O
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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Arto O » 31 May 2020 03:18

Hi,
Oscar Dirlewanger wasn´t all right with his head. He was extremely cruel, but at same time he was a brave man. Is there any psychological analisis, post war of course, what was his mental sickness?
thanks
Arto

Orlov
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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Orlov » 31 May 2020 14:05

I know, that author asked two psychiatrists - they refused to submit topics and psychiatric or psychological analyzes

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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by steve248 » 02 Jun 2020 11:43

The link in the first post is to a Polish article that appeared in 1993. I do not know where the "Polnische Wachmannschaft" came from because an even earlier publication says:
7 June 1945, Dirlewanger died in Altshausen, Krs Saulgau/Württemberg “in französischer Gefangenschaft von ehemaligen KZ-Häftlingen erschlagen”
source: Ernst-Günther Krätschmer, Die Ritterkreuzträger der Waffen-SS, publ. Verlag K W Schütz, Preussisch Oldendorf, 3rd edition 1982, pp 784-785

And a 1961 report by the Zentrale Stelle/Ludwigsburg:
7 June 1945, Dirlewanger “in Altshausen/Württ. im Ortsarrest verstorben ist”; for confirmation, StA Ravensburg arranged for the body to be exhumed and “gerichtsärztlichen Untersuchungen einwandfrei”.

Arto O
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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Arto O » 03 Jun 2020 01:50

Orlov wrote: I know, that author asked two psychiatrists - they refused to submit topics and psychiatric or psychological analyzes.

Thanks Orlov,
Maybe his case was so "complicated and horrified", that they prefered not to think in it.

Curiously I found this in Wikipedia:
According to German BIORAPHER Knut Stang, the war was a contributing factor that determined Dirlewanger´s later life and his "terror warfare" methods, as "his amoral personality, with his alcoholism and sadistic sexual orientation, was additionally shattered by the front eperience of the WWI and its frencied violence and barbarism".

cheers
Arto

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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Hans1906 » 04 Jun 2020 19:38

Good evening,

war criminals like Dirlewanger keep showing up, and it's never gonna end...

A very special "fascination" still makes these sick people interesting, even today, maybe it was this exceptional situation, whatever was commanded, it was done, commanded and obeyed.

The person Dirlewanger has long been studied, more or less scientifically, for many reasons.
Even the few photos of the man are too much for me, and I don't need and don't want to know every dirty detail.

Bean counters really enjoy this topic, I understand that only too well, but for me personally the man is history, beaten to death, or whatever...
Looking at his few photos nowadays, makes me shiver...
And the fascination continues, for at least a thousand years further.

Only my opinion as a german heir to this story.

War is Hell!

Hans1906

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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by history1 » 05 Jun 2020 11:44

steve248 wrote:
02 Jun 2020 11:43
[...] And a 1961 report by the Zentrale Stelle/Ludwigsburg: 7 June 1945, Dirlewanger “in Altshausen/Württ. im Ortsarrest verstorben ist”;
for confirmation, StA Ravensburg arranged for the body to be exhumed and “gerichtsärztlichen Untersuchungen einwandfrei”.
The text in red means translated "forensic investigations faultlessly" and makes absolutely no sense (there should be the term "waren" between "Untersuchungen" and "einwandfrei") nor does it say anything about the results. In this wording one must expect that they meant that there happened no failures/errors during the investigation arranged by the Public Prosecutor's Department ( = StA = Staatsanwaltschaft) Ravensburg and that the analysis was done lege artis.

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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by steve248 » 05 Jun 2020 12:24

Wonderful when someone wants something you were not interested in. I have no particular interest in Dirlewanger and simply copied the relevant extracts that would suffice for my purposes.
There are several courses of action that history1 can take to establish the exact facts of the Dirlewanger case, beyond what I quoted, and naturally when archives re-open. I have to drive from the UK to Ludwigsburg to examine files; must take less time from Austria.
The Signaturen at Bundesarchiv Ludwigsburg are B162/21202 and B162/5919 to 5926. No doubt there are more.
In the meantime you could always write to StA Ravensburg and ask for a copy of the report.

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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Orlov » 06 Jun 2020 22:03

steve248 wrote:
05 Jun 2020 12:24
1. ...The link in the first post is to a Polish article that appeared in 1993. I do not know where the "Polnische Wachmannschaft" ...
2. ... The Signaturen at Bundesarchiv Ludwigsburg are B162/21202 and B162/5919 to 5926...
Ad 1. Probably first mentioned by H.-P. Klausch, Antifaschisten in SS-Uniform. Schicksal und Widerstand der deutschen politischen KZ-Häftlingen Zuchthaus- und Werhmachtsgefangenen in der SS- Sonderformation Dirlewanger, Bremen, 1993, p. 314-316 (testimonies of Oberleutnant Luftwaffe and DRK sister)

Ad. 2. Especially BAL, B162/16592, fol. 104–112, Materialsammlung betr. Sondereinheit Dirlewanger – Bd. 1 T. 1 Unterlagen verschiedener Proveniezen zu Oskar Dirlewanger: Institut Für Gerichtliche Medizin Der Universität Freiburg, Prof. Dr. med. G. Weyrich, An die Staatsanwaltschaft Ravensburg, Betr: Ermittlungsverfahren gegen Dr. Dirlewanger, Oskar, wegen Mordverdacht, 24.11.1960;
Hans1906 wrote:
04 Jun 2020 19:38
[...] War is Hell! [...] Hans1906 [...]
Excuse me Hans1906 - small reflection from German historian (od culture) about regarding WWII barbarity (especially in area "Bloodlands" = "Ostgebiete") - some books (to count on the fingers of both hands), any German movies about KZ's or EG's or this monster like a Dirlewanger or Streibel or Hahn.
You didn't overwork, you just want to forget.
This is not fascination - this recognize "german story", if the Germans didn't do it.
history1 wrote:
05 Jun 2020 11:44
StA Ravensburg.
StA Ravensburg - Interesting archive - that's where the investigation regarding Unternehmen "Wueste".

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Hans1906
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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Hans1906 » 08 Jun 2020 12:36

"You didn't overwork, you just want to forget."

Good afternoon Orlov,

I am probably missunterstood, in what I wrote further above, there is no "forgetting", at least not on my side.
Historycally interested people, also here in Germany, are still into all this, and this will prob. also never end, very good.

As a born german, born in the year 1956, also the son of an american father, we children of the so called "Cold War" grew
up with all this "Scheisse" and Horror on an everyday basis.
The Shoa, the Porajmos, the Aktion T4, and whatever, one can imagine, everything was still just "behind the corner".

Grandparents, parents, nobody spoke about all this back then, the families did not talk about all this,
most of them were invented in the system of the National Socialism, more, or less.
Thanks to some of our teachers in the late 1960s, and the 1970s, we young people got a very different "View" on our own german
history.
We were teached to read important books, I remember reading "Mein Kampf", when I was 17 or 18 years young, the book was still on sale
in the bookshops of my grandparents, next to the "Mao-Bible", and the few printed books by the german "RAF". (Rote Armee Fraktion).

Typical in the 1970s, did all this reading harm my person, I do not thing think so, all these reads formed something like an open mind,
you can never judge something, you never read...

Enough bla-bla from former years, sorry for my very bad english.


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Orlov
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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Orlov » 04 Aug 2020 18:52

Hans1906 wrote:
08 Jun 2020 12:36
"You didn't overwork, you just want to forget."
[...] Hans1906 [/quot]
It is not a fascination with evil in Author of article case - but rather the fact of serving Russians and Ukrainians with Dirlewanger and participation in the pacification of the Warsaw Uprising. Hence, the author took up Dirlewanger, knowing that no one would describe the Warsaw nightmare better than a person from Warsaw. The chapter on the Uprising itself has over 200 typescript pages, and a total of 880 pages without attachments.
The author - as I asked him - decided to write about Dirlewanger because he saw gaps in German and American books, and only then an excellent Russian monograph appeared.

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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by David Thompson » 08 Aug 2020 13:24

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TheSearchers
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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by TheSearchers » 09 Aug 2020 14:38

Orlov wrote:
24 May 2020 13:48
[...] - unfortunately no confirmation by veterans: https://rcin.org.pl/dlibra/publication/ ... ion/116922
Acutaly, there was a veteran claiming to have witnessed some of it:
"He was arrested by French occupation authorities on June 1, 1945, near the town of Althausen in Upper Swabia. After this, his fate becomes cloudy. The exact cause of his death is unknown, which over time has led to speculation. His death certificate, issued by French authorities, shows him to have died on June 7, 1945, of natural causes. However, a Luftwaffe lieutenant named Anton Füssinger later claimed he was Dirlewanger's cell mate and said he witnessed Dirlewanger being gravely beaten by Polish guards in French service on the night of Juen 4 to 5, 1945, resulting in his death. No one, however, confirmed any of Füssinger's statements."
[...]
"... the Department of Public Prosecution in Ravensburg arranged the exhaumation of Dirlewanger's corpse to confirm his identity in November 1960. The place of his burial was suppressed."
Source: https://books.google.nl/books?id=SymBDw ... rg&f=false
"Penetrating the Holocaust: Leaders, Enablers, and Collaborators" by Paul R. Bartrop, Eve E. Grimm

The exhumation resulted in a clear identification of Oscar Dirlewanger at the time:
Weiß, Lexikon, S. 94; Auerbach, VfZ, 1962, Hf. 3, S. 252. – Vgl. auch Ingrao, 2006, S. 206 f.

Found the following statement of Anton Füssinger in French language behind the URL below and ran it through the Google translator:
When I was in the local Althausen prison, I was there in the same cell with two other prisoners, June 1-5, 1945. We introduced ourselves. One introduced himself as Gustl Minch d 'Oberndorf, the other as Dirlewanger, without adding a comment. […] Dirlewanger and Minch were taken away during the night and beaten up by the Poles in the hall. I could hear the beating and screaming of the two men. I could see open, dripping wounds on the faces and bodies of Minch and Dirlewanger. On the night of June 4-5, Dirlewanger and Minch were taken out of the cell on three separate occasions, and similarly beaten in the hall. On their return to the cell, they were unable to utter even a word, or even to stand up. Soon after the guards again entered to take them away, and slaughtered them with their butts. guns, causing very deep wounds to the head. Then both of them were foot-kicked in the private parts. […] All the while, curled up in a corner of the cell, I dared not move, fearing the same fate. In my opinion, both died in that instant - although I could not make sure. About 30 minutes later, Minch was removed from the cell by a guard who dragged him to the ground. […] I never saw him again. Dirlewanger remained in the cell; without moving. On the morning of the 5th, at around 8:30 am, I was removed from the cell and released. […]
https://deuxiemeguerremondia.forumactif ... temoignage

Author "Eddy" indicated the following sources for his post linked above:
- MacLean, French. The Cruel Hunters. SS sonderkommando Dirlewanger – Schiffer Military History. 1998
- Michaelis, Rolf. Der Weg zur 36. Waffen Genadier Division SS – Rodgau, FRG : Verlag für Militärhistorische Zeitgeschichte – 1991
Kind regards,
TheSearchers

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Orlov
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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by Orlov » 16 Aug 2020 22:01

Thanks TheSearchers!
All those books and Füssinger testimony were cited in articles. I think about Polish communist veterans from 19ème et 29ème GIP, who server cery close to Altshausen - near 20 km.

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Re: Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

Post by VanillaNuns » 16 Sep 2020 03:36

This pdf file has more information on Dirlewanger's movements from March 1945 onwards including his arrest and death. It is safe to download. 👍

http://sdr-ihpan.edu.pl/images/volume54 ... berski.pdf

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