Beheadings in the Third Reich

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history1
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by history1 » 18 Nov 2020 13:44

tomh wrote:
17 Nov 2020 05:12
[...]
History1, Gröppler's name was spelled "Gröpler" or "Gröppler", I don't know which version would be more correct.
[...]
Neither do I, Tom, more interesting I found the different informations about his successors.

Pete26
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An article about axe and fallbeil executions in Bergisches Land

Post by Pete26 » 18 Nov 2020 15:29

Last edited by Pete26 on 18 Nov 2020 21:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Hans1906
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Hans1906 » 18 Nov 2020 18:51

Gentlemen,

"Franz Friedrich Carl Gröpler" was and is the correct spelling: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gröpler

The verification of several sources clearly confirms this.

Hans1906

Quote:
"This is definitely the most realistic depiction of an axe execution I have seen so far. The only comment I have is that German executioners typically wore white gloves, while this one is wearing black gloves."

I sign deeply, a frightening scene, disturbing. Seen late night in the german TV.
What did the two helpers of the executioner do in this scene, was the delinquent's head pulled down by the two ropes?

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 19 Nov 2020 03:10

Hans1906 wrote:
18 Nov 2020 18:51


I sign deeply, a frightening scene, disturbing. Seen late night in the german TV.
What did the two helpers of the executioner do in this scene, was the delinquent's head pulled down by the two ropes?
The block has two steel swivel rings attached to it near the bottom. Each end of the rope was tied to the condemned person's wrists and then routed through the rings and pulled tight by the executioner's helpers to secure the arms and hands in place. To secure the head to the block and to keep it motionless during the execution, there were two metal studs near the top of the block and a leather strap or equivalent was tied across the back of the victim's head and attached to the studs on the block. It is not clear if this latter restraint was used very often, perhaps only when the condemned person struggled and had to be restrained.
.

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Hans1906
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Hans1906 » 19 Nov 2020 03:24

Thank you Pete26, I can't think of anything more on this subject.

Hans1906

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von thoma
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by von thoma » 19 Nov 2020 22:35

Guillotine Pankrác Prison
It seems an imprecise device with those bounces...

" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 20 Nov 2020 02:00

von thoma wrote:
19 Nov 2020 22:35
Guillotine Pankrác Prison
It seems an imprecise device with those bounces...
The explanation for this is easy enough. This is an improperly restored Tegel type guillotine, returned to its original location after WWII. On the last day of April 1945 it was completely disassembled by German guards in Pankrac prison, wooden parts like the bench, legs, and lunette, were burned in the prison boiler room, and metal parts like the outer frame, sledge, blade and winch were thrown into Vltava river. These parts were retrieved by divers after several weeks in the water, and improper wooden parts were added to complete the guillotine, as the people restoring the guillotine most likely had no idea what it originally looked like. The sledge bounces because the original shock absorbing material in the frame tubes was replaced with more flexible materials, probably rubber.

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von thoma
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by von thoma » 20 Nov 2020 02:54

Thanks for your reply

Another question ;
It was forbidden to execute in a face up position
There were rules on this
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 20 Nov 2020 04:37

von thoma wrote:
20 Nov 2020 02:54
Thanks for your reply

Another question ;
It was forbidden to execute in a face up position
There were rules on this
I have not seen any execution report or heard of anyone being guillotined face up. Most fallbeils in Nazi Germany had blade shields so the condemned individuals would not see the raised blade and would not panic when led to the fallbeil. Fallbeil executions were typically witnessed by the state attorney and the executioner and his assistants were expected to perform the execution in a prescribed manner and that meant placing the individual on their stomach on the bench. Some fallbeils did not have a blade shield, such as the Mannhardt fallbeil used in Wolfenbuettel prison. Typically, one of the assistants would place a hand over the eyes of the condemned as he was led to the fallbeil. This was a common practice in fallbeil executions. If someone were to be placed on the fallbeil bench on their back and their neck clamped in the lunette, they would see the raised blade and most likely panic. I certainly do not think that anyone was ever beheaded with an axe in a face up position either. there was a cutout fo the chin in the execution block so this meant face down position for the execution.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by marko10 » 20 Nov 2020 15:25

tomh wrote:
17 Nov 2020 05:12
Thanks Pete26, that is obviously correct.
History1, Gröppler's name was spelled "Gröpler" or "Gröppler", I don't know which version would be more correct.

In the 3rd season of the German TV-series "Babylon Berlin" there are two execution scenes, in which a female prisoner is beheaded with an axe in a prison courtyard. The events in the TV-series take place in 1929 in Berlin. I think these execution scenes are much more accurate and realistic than in most other movies or TV-series.
babylon.jpg
babylon2.jpg
babylon3.jpg
I'm curious about the condemned man's dress during the execution ... is it a reproduction of the original?

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Hans1906 » 20 Nov 2020 15:49

The so-called "Altonaer Blutsonntag" in the year 1932, and the later executions with the hand axe:
E: "Altona bloody sunday".

Altonaer Blutsonntag / Wikipedia (G) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altonaer_Blutsonntag

The execution at that time is the subject of the german feature film "Das Beil von Wandsbek" from the year 1951.

Hans1906

P.S. There is also a photo of a "Richtaxt" and a "Richtblock/Richtbank", a blurred black and white photo, with a reference to the events in Hamburg / Altona in 1932.
The very old photo does not belong here, out of respect for the victims of that time.

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by fredric » 21 Nov 2020 23:09

Pete26 wrote:
19 Nov 2020 03:10
Hans1906 wrote:
18 Nov 2020 18:51


I sign deeply, a frightening scene, disturbing. Seen late night in the german TV.
What did the two helpers of the executioner do in this scene, was the delinquent's head pulled down by the two ropes?
The block has two steel swivel rings attached to it near the bottom. Each end of the rope was tied to the condemned person's wrists and then routed through the rings and pulled tight by the executioner's helpers to secure the arms and hands in place. To secure the head to the block and to keep it motionless during the execution, there were two metal studs near the top of the block and a leather strap or equivalent was tied across the back of the victim's head and attached to the studs on the block. It is not clear if this latter restraint was used very often, perhaps only when the condemned person struggled and had to be restrained.
.
Excellent answer by Pete concurs with everything I have read. Various devices were used to keep the victim's head stable. Some were even metal (!) and that posed a danger of damaging the richbeil blade. Pulling the victim forward and up via the ropes must have happened so fast that squirming about rarely occurred. In the photo of Anton Giepz execution, an assistant appears to be pulling on the head possibly to keep the neck straight.
The Berlin Babylon photos from the video to me as well as others, are so detailed right down to the armsunderglock... and yes, a wire
basket was used at times. This is a well-researched video. I only wish we could view the full scene in motion. The woman to the left
of the table is a puzzle... but I have not seen the film. Perhaps a matron? The "shroud" is unusual... but this is a woman being executed so a full covering may have been typical.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by von thoma » 22 Nov 2020 09:20

What signified this bell placed on scaffold
Is it a signal to start the execution ?
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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Max
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Max » 22 Nov 2020 12:35

According to the time stamps on pics 2 and 3, there is quite a long time.
Why is that?
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by tomh » 22 Nov 2020 22:05

von thoma wrote:
22 Nov 2020 09:20
What signified this bell placed on scaffold
Is it a signal to start the execution ?
Yes, in the TV series at least.

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