Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

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michael mills
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Re: Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

Post by michael mills » 15 Sep 2016 09:13

So basically not different from what Stalin did in the beginning of the 1930s, treating millions of lives as disposable, even if not expressing a clear intent to murder them.
Yes.

The claim that Stalin was trying to exterminate the Ukrainian nation through starvation is nonsense.

What he was trying to do was to ensure an adequate food supply to the urban population by the forced extraction of food from the peasantry, without any regard for whether that would cause a famine among the rural population.

Backe was proposing much the same thing.

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Re: Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

Post by michael mills » 15 Sep 2016 09:27

Last year I read a book by Lars Lih, "Bread and Authority in Russia, 1914-1921", which described the measures undertaken by both the Imperial and Bolshevik rulers on Russia to establish firm government control of the food supply in the period from the outbreak of war to the introduction of the NEP.

What Stalin did in 1932-33 was essentially a repetition of those measures, eg using military force to prevent the free flow of food from one region to another so as to preserve a government monopoly of food distribution.

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Re: Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 24 Jan 2021 19:04

That's how it was done in 'realty'


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Re: Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

Post by michael mills » 25 Jan 2021 05:25

This an extremely important document which disproves the allegation that the German occupiers intended to impose starvation on the civilian population of the occupied Soviet territories in order to exterminate it.

The document describes the goal of ensuring the supply of sufficient food to the civilian population so as to preserve it as a labour force, and also to win the cooperation of the people. It forbids any unauthorised seizure of grain and animals from the civilian population, and any sort of plundering, and orders that all requisitioned goods must be paid for. Finally, it threatens court-martial for any infringement of those orders.

Another important elements in the document is the confirmation that there had been a food supply crisis during the preceding winter, that of 1941-42. It was that food supply crisis that was the main cause of the very high mortality of the Red Army personnel who had been captured during 1941, not a genocidal policy as so often alleged.

For the information of readers, here is my translation of the initial part of the document, summarising its purpose.
Subject: Reconstruction of Agriculture and Prohibition of Requisitioning

I. Fundamentals

The difficulties in the food supply that occurred during the winter have been overcome for the most part. For the mud season, the troops have been provided with sealed rations for 14 days in addition to regular rations.

The preservation of the civilian population as a labour force is a vital necessity. for both military and economic reasons. The population now possesses only the minimum food necessary to survive the time until the new harvest.

Furthermore, the local population must retain as much seed-grain as well as cattle and equipment as to allow them in the spring to be able to cultivate as much private land (one half-hectare per family) as required for their feeding in the coming year. In addition, the stringent food situation of our people compels us to cultivate in this year the greatest possible amount of the conquered land and thereby to secure for the coming years the feeding of the homeland, in particular of the army of occupation.

In addition, by these measures the Russian people will be shown that our weapons do not bring destruction to their land, but rather reconstruction, order and work. That is the best propaganda work, that is carried out solely by the troops themselves. Only in this way will the population be drawn to cooperation and their mentality and attitude toward our troops (partisan warfare) be basically influenced and changed.
Jann-Hendrik reserves our thanks for providing the link to this important document.

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Re: Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 25 Jan 2021 09:12

More

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wm
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Re: Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

Post by wm » 28 Jan 2021 23:42

Documents from 1942 can't disprove genocidal intentions formulated in 1941.
All that happened at the end of 1941 and 1942 was unplanned and not foreseen in 941.

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Re: Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

Post by michael mills » 29 Jan 2021 02:33

They cast doubt on whether there were any such genocidal plans. The documents at issue show an intention to provide the Soviet civilian population with enough food to keep it alive. If it had been the German intention in 1941 to exterminate millions of Soviet citizens by starvation, then the documents dating from the middle of 1942, show that such an intention no longer existed.

If one believes that a genocidal intention really existed in 1941 but no longer existed in 1942, then it is necessary to demonstrate the process how that original intention came to be abandoned, and why it was abandoned.

If such a process cannot be conclusively demonstrated, then the conclusion must be that a genocidal intention did not originally exist. In that case, Backe's words uttered in May 1941, about the starvation of tens of millions unless they were able to move to Siberia, must be seen not as a plan to commit a genocide, but rather as his guess about the likely consequences of his food extraction plan, consequences that in fact did not occur.

In any case, even historians such as Gerlach who claim that a "hunger plan", a plan to deliberately starve millions of Soviet citizens to death, really did exist, admit that the starvation foreseen by Backe did not actually occur during the winter of 1941-42, except to a limited extent such as in the case of the around two million Soviet POWs who died, and also admit that when in the spring of 1942 the German occupiers observed that tens of millions had not died, they did not try any alternative means of causing those tens of millions of deaths. Furthermore, those historians are unable to provide a credible explanation for why the German occupiers did not try to accomplish their alleged genocidal intentions by other means.

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wm
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Re: Herbert Backe's Hunger Plan

Post by wm » 21 Feb 2021 09:44

The intention itself wasn't genocidal, they didn't intend to kill millions for the sake of it.
The Hunger Plan and millions of its victims were the intended consequences of the Barbarossa plan and the Wehrmacht's need to live off the land.

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