Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

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Hans1906
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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by Hans1906 » 07 May 2022 00:05

David Irving is a bunch of shit, never a source.


Hans
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Totenkomf
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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by Totenkomf » 07 May 2022 00:22

Hans1906 wrote:
07 May 2022 00:05
David Irving is a bunch of shit, never a source.


Hans
Well we can agree on that Hans, Irving is an court proven Holocaust denier.
"Befehl ist Befehl"

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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by mikegriffith1 » 12 May 2022 00:12

Totenkomf wrote:
07 May 2022 00:22
Hans1906 wrote:
07 May 2022 00:05
David Irving is a bunch of shit, never a source.

Hans
Well we can agree on that Hans, Irving is an court proven Holocaust denier.
"Court-proven"? Yeah, in order to find Irving guilty of "Holocaust denial," Judge Gray had to use a vastly expanded definition of the term. He had to add several components that would never occur to an average, unbiased person.

If the trial had been held in the 1980s, Lipstadt's lawyers and experts could have been found guilty of Holocaust denial because they put the number of Auschwitz victims at around 1 million, whereas the "overwhelming scholarly consensus" until the 1990s was that 4 million Jews were killed at Auschwitz. Only in the 1990s did the evidence that revisionists had been presenting for years finally force traditional historians to revise the number down to around 1 million. I disagree with revisionists on nearly every issue regarding Auschwitz, but every now and then they have made a valid point.

And if anyone is going to use Evans' book Lying About Hitler, they should be aware that the book is mostly a retitled copy of the expert brief that Evans submitted at the libel trial, and they should read Irving's cross-examination of Evans in the trial. Irving caught Evans in one distortion and falsehood after another. One scholar who reviewed Evans' book said the book's title should be "Lying About David Irving."

I wonder how many people here who harshly attack Irving have read a single one of his books. It appears that no pejorative term is off-limits when it comes to attacking Irving. I would not even think about using such verbiage to attack a scholar on a subject if I had not taken the time to read at least one of his books.

I'll tell you this much: If you read, for example, even the 1991 edition of Irving's Hitler's War, much less the 1977 or 2002 editions, you will realize very quickly that the claim that Irving "whitewashes Hitler" is false.

Anyway, I haven't gone back to see how David Irving got included in this thread, but it would be nice if we could get back to the point that Eichmann deserved exactly what he got.

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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by VanillaNuns » 12 May 2022 01:58

Eichmann participated in the Wannsee Conference and was given responsibility for the Protocol.

He visited several extermination camps including Auschwitz in an official capacity. He knew the scale of mass murder that was going on in these places.

He coordinated the railway timetables and transports. Thousands of Jews crammed together like sardines into filty, unsanitary conditions being sent East to camps in rural Poland, on a daily basis.

He knew the approximate number of Jews that were transported during the Aktion Reinhard program in 1942. His office had the detailed figures available.

He was in close, regular contact with Kaltenbrunner, Müller and Himmler, meeting and corresponding with them all on a regular basis.

When I hear the "small cog in a large machine" argument, I point you to the hundreds of convicted Nazi criminals who were executed at Hamelin and Landsberg in the post war years. Many dropped from the gallows for individual crimes, less serious. Some of them probably deserved a stiff prison sentence instead.

Eichmann deserved exactly what he got.

The Israelis treated him well during captivity and gave him a fair trial. He also spent 15 years evading justice and leading a pretty good life whilst his victims suffered. So all this "fair sentence" discussion is hokey. 😠 😈


"To sum it all up, I must say that I regret nothing"

While awaiting trial in Israel, as quoted in LIFE magazine (5 December 1960).

During cross-examination, prosecutor Hausner asked Eichmann if he considered himself guilty of the murder of millions of Jews. Eichmann replied: "Legally not, but in the human sense … yes, for I am guilty of having deported them". When Hausner produced as evidence a quote by Eichmann in 1945 stating: "I will leap into my grave laughing because the feeling that I have five million human beings on my conscience is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction", Eichmann countered the claim saying that he was referring only to "enemies of the Reich"

"If we had killed 10.3 million Jews, then I would have been satisfied and would say, good, we annihilated an enemy. … I wasn't only issued orders, in this case I'd have been a moron, but I rather anticipated, I was an idealist"

Post-war discussion with Willem Sassen in Eichmanns Memoiren. Ein kritischer Essay (Zuerst 2001) Frankfurt/M.: Fischer TB, 2004

"It was my job to catch our Jewish enemies like fish in a net and transport them to their final destination"

As quoted in The Nazi Hunters by Neal Bascomb (2013)

These quotes are the tip of the iceberg. A man with no shame, no guilt, no remorse. A desktop murderer.

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Totenkomf
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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by Totenkomf » 12 May 2022 19:52

mikegriffith1 wrote:
12 May 2022 00:12
Totenkomf wrote:
07 May 2022 00:22
Hans1906 wrote:
07 May 2022 00:05
David Irving is a bunch of shit, never a source.

Hans
Well we can agree on that Hans, Irving is an court proven Holocaust denier.
"Court-proven"? Yeah, in order to find Irving guilty of "Holocaust denial," Judge Gray had to use a vastly expanded definition of the term. He had to add several components that would never occur to an average, unbiased person.



I wonder how many people here who harshly attack Irving have read a single one of his books. It appears that no pejorative term is off-limits when it comes to attacking Irving. I would not even think about using such verbiage to attack a scholar on a subject if I had not taken the time to read at least one of his books.

I'll tell you this much: If you read, for example, even the 1991 edition of Irving's Hitler's War, much less the 1977 or 2002 editions, you will realize very quickly that the claim that Irving "whitewashes Hitler" is false.
Alright Mike maybe I was too harsh towards Mr. Irving's writings, I am sure that he had written also good books.

With the "court proven" I meant that the court had enough evidence to charge him as a Holocaust Denier.

Regards.
"Befehl ist Befehl"

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Hans1906
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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by Hans1906 » 13 May 2022 20:41

Is it known how and by what means Eichmann was hanged. ?

Was his execution filmed, if not, why ?

Why is this a mystery until today ?


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Totenkomf
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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by Totenkomf » 13 May 2022 20:48

Hans:
The Israelis stated that they hanged Eichmann. At Gallows, Long-Drop Hanging.
Last edited by Totenkomf on 14 May 2022 17:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by mikegriffith1 » 14 May 2022 16:54

Here's a compilation of some of the anti-Hitler and anti-Nazi comments and observations in three of Irving's most popular books:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1azmfaG ... sp=sharing

This is a working draft. I may be adding more material to the compilation today and tomorrow. It's titled "Lying About David Irving: Refuting the Myth that David Irving’s Books Whitewash Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany."

I made it a point to take material from two books published before the libel trial and one book published after the trial.

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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by mikegriffith1 » 20 May 2022 01:39

mikegriffith1 wrote:
14 May 2022 16:54
Here's a compilation of some of the anti-Hitler and anti-Nazi comments and observations in three of Irving's most popular books:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1azmfaG ... sp=sharing

This is a working draft. I may be adding more material to the compilation today and tomorrow. It's titled "Lying About David Irving: Refuting the Myth that David Irving’s Books Whitewash Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany."

I made it a point to take material from two books published before the libel trial and one book published after the trial.
The article is now in final form and contains roughly double the number of quotes that the working draft contained. It also contains quotes from six of Irving's books, whereas the working draft only quoted from three of his books. The article proves beyond any doubt that Irving's books do not whitewash Hitler and the Nazi regime but rather contain mountains of damning information about Hitler and his ill-fated dictatorship.

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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 20 May 2022 18:40

Hi mikegriffith1,

A couple of observations.

1) I think you should give this its own thread. It is liable to get buried here, which would be a waste.

2) The books you review are between 26 and 44 years old. Irving has continued to write in the quarter century since, so it is a less than full-span survey. It would be interesting to know if his more recent work is similar or if his opinions have evolved.

3) I am not sure that the real controversy around Irving is about his general characterization of Hitler. It is more about his characterization of the extent and nature of the so-called "Holocaust" and his apparent attempt to divorce Hitler from direct responsibility for it.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by Orwell1984 » 21 May 2022 03:14

Of course, the "holocaust trial" isn't the first time Irving lost a court case centred around his writings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broome_v_ ... %26_Co_Ltd

Seems to be a pattern with him.

Here's Irving in action recently:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/we-caught ... -a-hot-mic

This campaign to rehabilitate him is fascinating.

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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by VanillaNuns » 25 May 2022 11:00

Totenkomf wrote:
13 May 2022 20:48
Hans:
The Israelis stated that they hanged Eichmann. At Gallows, Long-Drop Hanging.
Incidentally, he was offered a last special meal but refused. Instead, he ate cheese, bread and olives. However, he requested and was allowed a bottle of Israeli Carmel red wine. He only drunk half of it.

After refusing the black hood, he was hanged a few minutes after midnight on 1 June 1962.

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Re: Adolf Eichmann: Fair Sentence?

Post by Totenkomf » 25 May 2022 11:15

Well that is more detailed answer VanillaNuns.
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