Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
Paul H
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 02:10

Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Paul H » 23 Jun 2022 08:30

Who would be considered the most authoritative experts on the holocaust between the years 1945 - 1955?

steve248
Member
Posts: 3610
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 20:53
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by steve248 » 23 Jun 2022 13:30

Between 1945 and 1955 most publications were survivor accounts.
The first authoritative account of the holocaust was Gerald Reitlinger, "The Final Solution. The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe 1939-1945" first published by Vallentine Mitchell, London,1953, and has since gone through numerous editions.
Looking through his footnotes, most of his research was in Nuremberg documents.

About 1955, survivor and scholar Eugen Kogon, "The Theory and Practice of Hell" which has also gone through numerous editions since. then.

There was not much between then and the kidnap and trial of Eichmann (1960-1962) which spawned a whole range of scholarly research including Raul Hilberg, "The Destruction of the Euopean Jews" also based on Nuremberg documents and trials.

Interestingly, most holocaust scholars today rarely use Reitlinger, occasionally Hilberg, but more often Kogon.

Paul H
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 02:10

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Paul H » 24 Jun 2022 10:32

Thank you very much for the Steve, that is most interesting.

Would there be any mention of the number of total Jewish deaths in either of those two books?

Paul H
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 02:10

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Paul H » 24 Jun 2022 10:36

I am trying to find some source data of the most accurate figures for Jewish deaths published in the 1945 to 1955 time period and can only find one source so far.

User avatar
Hans1906
Member
Posts: 3594
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 23:13
Location: Deutschland

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Jun 2022 13:30

Hi Paul H,

Heinz Höhne should definitely be mentioned here, his book "Der Orden unter dem Totenkopf" was the first entry point for many people after 1945.
"Der Orden unter dem Totenkopf. Die Geschichte der SS. Mohn, Gütersloh 1967"
Heinz Höhne: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Höhne


Hans
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

Paul H
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 02:10

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Paul H » 24 Jun 2022 13:48

Thank you for that Hans, but that book is already 1967 and I am trying to stay not beyond 1955 because I am looking at what people knew or was published from experts only between 1945 and 1955.

But thank you anyway.

Paul H
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 02:10

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Paul H » 24 Jun 2022 13:49

I would assume the book you mention Hans was only for the German population with no english translated version?

User avatar
Hans1906
Member
Posts: 3594
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 23:13
Location: Deutschland

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Jun 2022 14:04

I own a copy of Raul Hilberg's "Die Vernichtung der europäischen Juden".

Published in the German Democratic Republic (DDR) in the early 1960s.

Die Vernichtung der europäischen Juden https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Verni ... chen_Juden

The East German edition of that time, a huge work with almost 600 pages, is rare.
A flea market find from the 1980s for 1,- German Mark.
You can hardly find something like that today, if at all, at completely inflated prices, unfortunately.

Attached picture: The book in english language, I am not sure, how many were printed in the german language..? :?


Hans
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

User avatar
Hans1906
Member
Posts: 3594
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 23:13
Location: Deutschland

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Jun 2022 14:22

I would assume the book you mention Hans was only for the German population with no english translated version?
Link: https://catalog.library.vanderbilt.edu/ ... INST:vanui

As almost always, not the case, the work has been translated into English several times... :wink:


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

User avatar
Hans1906
Member
Posts: 3594
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 23:13
Location: Deutschland

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Jun 2022 16:37

Kogon, Höhne, Hilberg, these authors were unknown to us young students in early 1970s.

National Socialism was not a topic in history lessons at the time, it was hushed up.

All of the teachers at the time, all of them, were part of the pre-1945 system.
Whether art, German, history, music, all of that was always in the background.
A neat haircut, clean fingernails, freshly showered, that was the rule, anyone with long hair was left out.
Discipline and order was the principle, whoever stepped out of line was bullied or fired.

The old "German order" stood above all of this: clean, orderly, reliable.
The school was different, the principle was the same as before 1945, tough as nails.
Like an NPEA before 1945.

And that was in the early 1970s.


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

steve248
Member
Posts: 3610
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 20:53
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by steve248 » 24 Jun 2022 17:44

The Heinz Höhne "Order of the Death's Head" was published in English in London in 1969.

I was educated in the 1950s and 1960s and no holocaust teaching in our history lessons. My own interest in this aspect of modern German history began with the kidnap and trial of Eichmann...

Paul H asked what Reitlinger offered as death figures. I have the 1966 revised edition but I do not think he changed much.

He has a chart, "Summary of Extermination Estimates", with three columns of figures marked "Low", "High" and "Anglo-American Committees Figures, April 1946" which are:
Low - 4.204,400
High - 4,575,400
Anglo-Amer - 5,721,800 - the total was originally 6,029,500 from which "Less dispersed refugees" of 308,000 is deducted.

Reitlinger's Low and High figures today look a bit on the low side.

Reitlinger's Low and High figures comes from possible Jewish losses by country including Germany and Austria.

Looking at his figures some are definitely on the low side. For example he has Hungary as Low/High 180,000/200,000 (the Anglo-American also has 200,000) and today the figure is double.

Similarly Reitlinger regarded Italian losses as 8,000 but the Anglo-American stated 20,000.

User avatar
Hans1906
Member
Posts: 3594
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 23:13
Location: Deutschland

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Jun 2022 18:24

steve248,

I think all this is "nitpicking" makes no sense, sorry.

What I remember from my personal environment is in the dozends, and ends after 1945 in the well-known DP camps...

Some of our motorcycle friends didn't know anything, searched for years, it was tragic.
Imagine you don't know anything about your parents, were they gassed, are they still alive, if so, then where?

Tragic memories, even today...


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

steve248
Member
Posts: 3610
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 20:53
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by steve248 » 24 Jun 2022 18:45

Hans
Do not give it a second thought.
Being brought up in rural northern England was definitely different to where you were brought up.
Look up on youtube the Taj Mahal/Ry Cooder "Statesboro Blues".

Steve

Paul H
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 02:10

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Paul H » 25 Jun 2022 04:06

This is some great information from both Hans and Steve as well as interesting conversation.

Paul H
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 02:10

Re: Experts on Holocaust between 1945 - 1955

Post by Paul H » 25 Jun 2022 04:21

I would like to compile a list of authoritative experts on the holocaust between the years 1945 - 1955 so if anyone else has names to add to this thread please do.

Next I am thinking that did all authoritative experts in that time period actually publish all of their findings or not? - Take for example Churchill who seems like a clear expert in history.

For example Churchill gave some opinion in the 1945 - 1955 time period on the holocaust although seemingly small of which I have found so far.
I would of thought with the magnitude of the resources available to Churchill that he would of written way more on the subject yet he seems to clearly stay away from the subject yet go into depth on many other aspects of the war, and I just don't understand that at all unless I have somewhere missed some of Churchill's writings on the holocaust?

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”