Dresden, 1945

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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Dresden, 1945

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Mar 2021 08:48

Hi Guys,

Lest we lose sight of some of the hard facts:

(1) Dresden was attacked for military reasons within the laws of war (the Hague Conventions) as they stood at the time because it had 19 army barracks, depots and headquarters, (just one of which was in charge of the recruitment and training of 8% of German Army manpower); produced most of the optics for Luftwaffe bomb sights, Heer gun sights and Kriegsmarine periscopes; contained the last north-south railway in German hands east of Berlin behind the Eastern Front; had anti-aircraft defences to protect them all, and because the Russians requested it to help their forces only 68 miles away.

(2) The Germans could have stopped any attack by declaring Dresden, or any other city, "Open". However, this would have required them to give up all the above mentioned military activity within their bounds and they chose not to do so anywhere.

Cheers,

Sid.

sandeepmukherjee196
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Re: Dresden, 1945

Post by sandeepmukherjee196 » 06 Mar 2021 10:26

Sid Guttridge wrote:
06 Mar 2021 08:48
Hi Guys,

Lest we lose sight of some of the hard facts:

(1) Dresden was attacked for military reasons within the laws of war (the Hague Conventions) as they stood at the time because it had 19 army barracks, depots and headquarters, (just one of which was in charge of the recruitment and training of 8% of German Army manpower); produced most of the optics for Luftwaffe bomb sights, Heer gun sights and Kriegsmarine periscopes; contained the last north-south railway in German hands east of Berlin behind the Eastern Front; had anti-aircraft defences to protect them all, and because the Russians requested it to help their forces only 68 miles away.

(2) The Germans could have stopped any attack by declaring Dresden, or any other city, "Open". However, this would have required them to give up all the above mentioned military activity within their bounds and they chose not to do so anywhere.

Cheers,

Sid.
Hi Sid..

Actually the latest discussion was triggered by the April 17 raid on Dresden, 20 days before the end, while the Seelow heights were being contested. In case you missed it.

Cheers
Sandeep

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wm
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Re: Dresden, 1945

Post by wm » 06 Mar 2021 10:40

if someone got bombed 20 days before the end it merely meant he was born under an unlucky star.
It was the German military thinkers who pushed the idea that "(military) necessity knows no law", so really Germans and their apologists shouldn't complain that someone tried the idea on their heads.

Sid Guttridge
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: Dresden, 1945

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Mar 2021 11:03

Hi Sandeep,

You post, "Actually the latest discussion was triggered by the April 17 raid on Dresden, 20 days before the end, while the Seelow heights were being contested. In case you missed it."

And, in case you missed it, the thread is about "Dresden, 1945" and the opening post does not mention the 17 April raid. I am not sure that it is necessarily me who is off-thread here!

Anyway, to pick up your focus, which of the following were no longer true on 17 April 1945: Dresden "had 19 army barracks, depots and headquarters, (just one of which was in charge of the recruitment and training of 8% of German Army manpower); produced most of the optics for Luftwaffe bomb sights, Heer gun sights and Kriegsmarine periscopes; contained the last north-south railway in German hands east of Berlin behind the Eastern Front; had anti-aircraft defences to protect them all, and because the Russians requested it to help their forces only 68 miles away.

The Germans could have stopped any attack by declaring Dresden, or any other city, "Open". However, this would have required them to give up all the above mentioned military activity within their bounds and they chose not to do so anywhere.
"

Cheers,

Sid.

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joeylonglegs
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Re:

Post by joeylonglegs » 31 May 2021 20:38

CabinetMinister wrote:
04 Apr 2002 14:08
As I see it, raising the death toll without or even against evidence is an insult to those who really and horribly died.
" The death toll was staggering. The full extent of the Dresden Holocaust can be more readily grasped if one considers that well over 250,000--possibly as many as half a million--persons died within a 14-hour period, whereas estimates of those who died at Hiroshima range from 90,000 to 140,000. Allied apologists for the massacre have often "twinned" Dresden with the English city of Coventry.
This is blatantly false. These are inflated numbers.

Seeking to establish a definitive casualty figure, in part to address propagandisation of the bombing by far-right groups, the Dresden city council in 2005 authorised an independent Historians' Commission (Historikerkommission) to conduct a new, thorough investigation, collecting and evaluating available sources. The results were published in 2010 and stated that between 22,700 and 25,000 people died at Dresden

(Müller, Rolf-Dieter; Schönherr, Nicole; Widera, Thomas, eds. (2010), Die Zerstörung Dresdens: 13. bis 15. Februar 1945. Gutachten und Ergebnisse der Dresdner Historikerkommission zur Ermittlung der Opferzahlen. (in German), V&R Unipress, pp. 48, ISBN 978-3899717730)

Absolutely nowhere near 250,000.

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