The most reliable Holocaust statistics on WEB.

[michael mills]

The figures are very "rubbery".

The most solid figure is that of the number of Hungarian Jews shipped to the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex in 1944, almost 400,000.

The "solidity" of that figure rests on the records of each transport sent from Hungary found at the railway station at Kosice in Slovakia, through which all the transports to Auschwitz passed.

The problem arises with the estimates of the number of Hungarian Jews who died in the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex. While relatively few of the arrivals were registered on arrival and recorded in the Auschwitz books, a large but unknown number were held in the camp as unregistered "depot-prisoners", and never recorded as being there.

Of the depot-prisoners, some were subsequently sent to other camps or places where they were used for slave labou, without having been registered at Auschwitz. The number that did not die in the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex but was transferred to other destinations is not known for certain, but may have been as high as 200,000. The transferred prisoners were used mainly for constructuing underground factories in Germany, as part of the program of transferring the jet-fighter manufacturing plants to underground shelters. Over 100,000 deported Hungarian Jews survived and returned to Hungary after the war; an unknown number died while working as slave labourers.

Other depot-prisoners died while being held unregistered in the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex, and their deaths went unrecorded. Those deaths occurred over a period of several months after the initial deportation. The total number of deaths of depot prisoners is unknown; some may have been gassed, others died as a result of the catastrophic living conditions.

Finally, a small number of the depot prisoners was eventually registered, sometimes after having been held unregistered for an extended period. We know that because Jews from Hungary were recorded as being registered long after the dpeortation had come to an end. Some of these died before the end of the war, others survived.

Thus, the number of the Jews deported from Hungary in 1944 that was actually killed in the gas-chambers of Birkenau was relatively small, almost certainly well under half the total number of deportees. The available evidence suggests that the killing took place mainly in Crematorium V, and that the bodies of the victims were burned in open-air pits on the grounds of that crematorium. The gassing and disposal of a relatively small number of victims would have been well within the capacity of the Birkenau gas chambers, even if not all of them were operational, as appears to have been the case.

[Sergey]

The most solid figure is that of the number of Hungarian Jews shipped to the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex in 1944, almost 400,000.
...
...the number of the Jews deported from Hungary in 1944 that was actually killed in the gas-chambers of Birkenau was relatively small

Now let's compare it with...

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/auschwitz ... Jews1.html

In a book entitled "The World Must Know," which is the official book for the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, Michael Birnbaum wrote:

Between May 14 and July 8, 1944, 437,402 Jews from fifty-five Hungarian localities were deported to Auschwitz in 147 trains. Most were gassed at Birkenau soon after they arrived. The railroad system was stretched to its limits to keep up with the demand of the camp, where as many as 12,000 people a day were being gassed.

Robert E. Conot wrote in his book "Justice at Nuremberg" that 330,000 of the Hungarian Jews were sent directly to the gas chambers at Auschwitz. The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust puts the total number of Hungarian Jews who died at Auschwitz-Birkenau between May and July 1944 at approximately 550,000, the majority of whom were gassed.

So where is the truth?

According to Francizek Piper, the majority of the Hungarian Jews, who were sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau, were gassed immediately. A booklet purchased from the Auschwitz Museum stated that 434,351 of the Hungarian Jews were gassed upon arrival. If these figures are correct, only 3,051 Hungarian Jews, out of the 437,402 who were sent to Auschwitz, were registered in the camp. However, Francizek Piper wrote that 28,000 Hungarian Jews were registered.

Are they trustworthly numbers?

Let's read Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_ ... ation_camp

From April until July 9, 1944, 475,000 Hungarian Jews, half of the pre-war population, were deported to Auschwitz, at a rate of 12,000 a day for a considerable part of that period.

[michael mills]

The figures of 434,351 and 437,402 Jews deported from Hungary to Auschwitz are derived from the report of the Hungarian Gendarmerie to the Hungarian Government and the report of German Ambassador Veesenmayer to the German Government.

However, those reports talk of Jews deported "to Germany", not specifically to Auschwitz. Therefore they must include the approximately 30,000 Jews sent to Strasshof in Austria and held there for possible exchange.

Deducting the Jews sent to Strasshof from the total leaves just over 400,000 who could have been sent to Auschwitz. Hoess in his post-war testimony gives a total of 400,000 Jews from Hungary. The statistics preserved at the Kosice railway station, through which all the trains from Hungary to Auschwitz passed, add up to a bit under 400,000.

Accordingly, the total number of Hungarian Jews that arrived at Auschwitz in 1944 cannot have exceeded 400,000. According to the Auschwitz Chronicle published by the Auschwitz Museum, 28,291 were registered, in a process that extended from 2 May to 18 October, well after the deportation process had terminated. (For example, on 10 August 1,000 Jews were registered, well after the trains had stopped arriving; they must have been held unregistered since their arrival, whever that was).

At least 120,000 surviving deported Hungarian Jews were registered by Jewish aid organisations as having returned to Hungary after the war, and an unknown number of survivors did not return to Hungary but went to other destinations, including being smuggled into Palestine.

Some of the returnees must have come from the camp at Strasshof, where conditions were relatively good and almost all the internees survived. That means that a good 100,000 of the survivors must have been from among the 400,000 Jews sent to Auschwitz. They represent the survivors of the Jews selected for labour, either in Auschwitz itself or sent to other locations; the number held for labour must originally have been much higher, since there was a very high mortality rate among the Jews sent to work on the construction of the underground jet-fighter factories.

It is quite likely that around 200,000 Hungarian Jews were sent to various locations for labour, 100,000 of them to work on the underground factories alone. They were drawn from the Jews who were held unregistered at Auschwitz after their arrival, as so-called "depot-prisoners". The total number of such depot-prisoners much have been higher than the number eventually sent to other destinations, since many of them died unrecorded while being held at Auschwitz unregistered, and were never recorded in the camp statistics.

What can be concluded with very near absolute certitude that the total number of Hungarian Jews killed in the gas-chambers of Birkenau was nowhere near the figure of 300,000 often quoted. It must have been a much lower figure within the capacity of Crematorium V alone, since that is the only crematorium that can be reliably shown to have been in operation during the summer of 1944.

[AliasDavid]

It is quite likely that around 200,000 Hungarian Jews were sent to various locations for labour, 100,000 of them to work on the underground factories alone. They were drawn from the Jews who were held unregistered at Auschwitz after their arrival, as so-called "depot-prisoners"...
What can be concluded with very near absolute certitude that the total number of Hungarian Jews killed in the gas-chambers of Birkenau was nowhere near the figure of 300,000 often quoted.

Your calculation does not consider those slave workers who had been brought or marched directly to Austria or to other camps in Germany. Aly ("Das letzte Kapitel", 2002, Stuttgart and München, page 375) estimates that several thousand had been deported to Mauthausen and around 76,000 had been forced to walk to Austria. If you deduct these from the overall 200,000 slave workers as well as 10,000 of the Jews kept in camps in the Vienna area, you end up with 110,000 Jews selected for slave labor in Auschwitz. Assuming the overall number of Jews deported to Auschwitz to be between 400,00 and 430,000, the figure of 300,000 gassed in Auschwitz becomes plausibel again.
UlrichH

[michael mills]

So far as I know, there is no hard figure for the number of Jews force-marched to Austria after German forces returned to Hungary in October 1944, after Horthy had been interned and replaced by the Szalasi regime.

Eichmann himself spoke of 50,000 being marched to the Austrian frontier. However, it is by no means clear exactly how many of these actually reached Austria, where they were supposed to work on the construction of fortifications. Apparently many died on the way, and large numbers simply remained in rest camps. It appears that the forced march was eventually cancelled before many of the Jews reached Austria.

I read the book "Das Letzte Kapitel" some years ago, but I cannot remember what Aly's figures were based on, ie whether there are German records of the number of Jews who actually reached Austria in foot convoys, or whether he arrived at a guesstimate based on mathematical calculations, as I have done.

In the chapter on Hungary in the book "Dimension des Voelkermords", there is a category "Ungewissen Schicksals" (Fate Unknown) applied to an estimated 147,000 persons, of which 120,000 are estimated to have died in Hungary. The figure of 147,000 was derived by subtracting from the estimated total of Jews who were not deported (286,139) the number who were living in Hungary at the end of the war (139,000).

The chapter assumes a total of 508,861 deportees. However, that total is based on an assumed total of 795,000 Jews living in Hungary in 1944, a figure that is totally undocumented. The only documented total of Jews in Hungary is 725,000 as at 1941. The additional 70,000 are supposed to be "Christian Jews" who were deported; however, there is no documentary evidence that that number of "Christian Jews" ever existed, there existence is merely assumed.

If 70,000 is deducted from the guesstimate of 508,861 deportees, we are left with 438,861 deportees, ie close to the figures reported in 1944.

i would suggest that if any of the Jews force-marched to the Austrian frontier actually arrived in Austria and were put to work, I would suggest they are included in the category of "Fate Unknown", and are not included in the figures for deportees or those returning from deportation.

In summary, the figures for Hungary are very "rubbery", and in many cases are simply guesstimates based on prior assumptions. I get the feeling that there is an emotional investment in the figures that 300,000 Hungarian Jews were gassed in Auschwitz in the summer of 1944, and that the other guesstimates are tailored to that figure.

As I pointed out above, the total number of Jews is inflated by assuming the existence of up to 100,000 "Christian Jews" who were subject to deportation. However, the existence of so many "Christian Jews" cannot be demonstrated, let alone whether they were deported. Accordingly, the figure of 300,000 Hungarian Jews gassed must be inflated by 100,000 at least.

[David Thompson]

Michael -- Please give sources for our readers who want to learn more.

[michael mills]

Some statistical information on the Jews force-marched from Budapest to the Austrian frontier in October 1944:

In October 1944 about 50,000 Jews from Budapest were forced to march by foot to the German Reich where they were to do forced labor. By the time they reached the west Hungarian border up to 7,000 had been shot during the march and a further 2,000 had died from exhaustion. A further 11,000 of the estimated 35,000 Jews deployed along the fortification line died within six months. Consequently almost every third Jew deported from Budapest died carrying out this forced labor.

Source: http://www.claimscon.org/?url=compensat ... ersecution

From Kurt Becher's testimony at the Eichmann trial:

32): What information did you provide to General Juettner about the "foot march," and how did he react to it?


Answer: General Juettner was furious about the foot march. Before he left Vienna for Budapest - this was the middle of November - I was able to draw his attention to the details of this catastrophic measure, and I had also informed him that, together with General Winkelmann, I had already protested to Himmler. General Juettner, under the impression of what he had seen himself, had had talks in Budapest with General Winkelmann, and also with a subordinate of Eichmann's in the presence of Winkelmann and myself, and expressed his indignation. As far as I remember, Eichmann's subordinate put forward the excuse that he was only carrying out orders.
(33): What do you know of the "foot march" of the Jews of Budapest to the Austrian border?


Answer: As far as I remember, the foot march began at the end of October 1944, i.e., under the Szalasi Government. The reason given for the foot march was that these people had to build a defensive rampart on the Austrian border. That is why there was mention of age limits for men suitable for this purpose. When I had discussions in Switzerland with President Roosevelt's emissary on war refugee matters, Mr. McClelland, and with Mr. Saly Mayer, I promised these gentlemen that I would without delay make representations to Himmler, in order to put an end to this foot march, but in any case, if that could not be arranged, at least to ensure that those taking part in the march should, in terms of age and physical capacity, be suitable for constructing fieldworks.
When I returned from Switzerland at the beginning of November, I saw, on the road from Vienna to Budapest, dreadful sights of misery of people marching. I immediately informed General Winkelmann, and together with General Winkelmann submitted a detailed report - I believe by teletype - to Himmler, with the request that he give orders for this foot march to be stopped.

I do not know whether this order for which we asked was issued immediately. In fact, the foot march continued, because a few days later I again saw these marches on the road from Budapest to Vienna.

I then went to Himmler and endeavoured to have the foot march stopped. Himmler then prohibited the foot march. I remember the people on the foot march being in an extremely bad state. As far as I remember, those in the march included ten-year-old children, as well as old people of 65 years of both sexes. I also remember that at least in part - I drove along the road three times - the weather was bad. As to whether in talking to General Juettner I called this foot march Eichmann's regiment (Standarte), I cannot remember any more today.

Source: http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eic ... er-03.html

The above suggests that at some point the footmarch was stopped, and at most only some 35,000 reached Austria and were put to work on fortifications. That is less than half the figure quoted in the post by AliasDavid.



The book from which I took the figures used by me is this one:

"Dimension des Volkermords : die Zahl der judischen Opfer des Nationalsozialismus", herausgegeben von Wolfgang Benz
Munchen : Oldenbourg, 1991.
ISBN 3486546317
Series: Quellen und Darstellungen zur Zeitgeschichte ; Bd. 33

I was quoting from statitistical notes from the book which I made a number of years ago.

With regard to the number of "Christian Jews" in Hungary in 1944, these figures are from the book by Randolph Braham,
"Hungarian Jewish Social Studies":

Christian Jews 1941 58,320
Subject to anti-Jewish laws 34,435
Not subject 23,885
Living in Budapest 36,362
Elsewhere in Trianon Hungary 15,920
In acquired areas 6,038

The maximum number of "Christian Jews" who might have been liable for deportation was therefore 34,435. However, it appears to be totally unknown whether any of these "Christian Jews" were actually deported.

The greater part of the Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz came from the annexed areas rather than from Trianon Hungary (Hungary in its borders before 1940-41, and from 1`945 onward). The book "Dimension des Voelkermords gives these figures for the number of Jews deported from the areas of Czechoslovakia and Romania annexed by Hungary, and the number of deportees who returned:

Area annexed from Romania (North Transylvania):

Number deported to Auschwitz in 1944..................137,125
Number of returnees:...................................... 44,000

Areas annexed from Czechoslovakia (South Slovakia and Ruthenia):

Number deported to Auschwitz...........................140,000
Number of returnees........................................20,000


Total deported to Auschwitz:............................277,125
Total returnees.............................................64,000

Thus the total estimated number of returnees from deportation to Auschwitz is:

Number of returnees to post-war Hungary............(121,500 less 20,000 [Strasshof] less 24,000 [Austria] = 77,500
Number of returnees to former annexed areas........................................................................64,000

Total returnees from deportation to Auschwitz........................................................................141,500

In addition, the book estimates that a good 5000 Jews deported from Hungary survived, but did not return.

Thus the total number of survivors from the 1944 deportation to Auschwitz must have been, according to the above calculations, at least 146,000.

If we assume that the figure of 146,000 represents two-thirds of the Jews deported to Auschwitz, with one-third having died while being used for labour (the same proportion as the Jews employed on fortification works in Austria), then the total number of deportees preserved for labour deployment must have been a good 220,000.

That means that at most 180,000 Hungarian Jews could have been gassed at Auschwitz between the beginning of the deportation in May and the cessation of gassing in November 1944. Assuming 180,000 gassed over a six-month period, that would yield 30,000 per month, or an average of 1,000 per day, an entirely plausible figure.

[antfreire]

I am a person who is convinced of the existence of a genocide in WWII which has been called the Holocaust. And I know that nine out of ten people that denie the holocaust are Nazis or antisemites. Having said so I don't comprehend why we have to allow people saying the there was not a Holodomor, or like an old general of the URSS that says publicly that Stalin was responsible for not more that about six hundred thouzands murders in URSS. Stalin murdered Ukranians, Tartars, Germans, Muslims and anybody that he thought could be a problem sometimes somewhere, besides the millions of ehtnics that he removed from their homes. So why do people refrain from calling that genocide? Is it so it does not have to be a crime to deny comunists masive murders?

[David Thompson]

antfreire -- We have open threads on those subjects, but this isn't one of them. If you have something to add to the subject of the most reliable holocaust statistics on the web, post it here. If you want to discuss the crimes of one or another of the assorted communist regimes, please post it to a thread on that subject.

Although there are occasionally exceptions, the forum management tries to keep a thread on a single topic. This makes it easier for readers to follow, and for researchers to subsequently locate, the discussions. If a poster would like to see further discussion of off-topic matters, please raise the subject in a pre-existing thread on that topic or, if there are no pre-existing threads, on a separate thread.

Non-complying posts are subject to deletion after warning.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53962

[ChristopherPerrien]

Yeah, if you subtract 6 million murdered, thousands of camp survivors, and thousands forced into hiding under dire circumstances, your "a quite of lot of cases of exceptions" dwindles into insignificance.

Please document 6 million murdered, because NOBODY can build those figures. Initially, the whole original "holocaust" was based on 4 million Jews being exterminated at Auschwitz. That has now been reduced "factually" to having been between 800,000 and 1.2 million. No honest researcher of Auschwitz (be they Jewish or Neo-Nazi) judges the deaths as past 1.2 million nowadays. Even "Auschwitz" has long brought down the old signage they had about how many Jews were killed there, simply because the claims of 3-4 million being killed there were wrong.

So why has not the original claim of "6 million" been reduced to "3 million"?????????

And does that explain that the numbers of Jews in Europe actually increased between 1938 and 1948? As according to well known census figures.

Since I now thread on dangerous ground , I do not deny holocaust :roll: , as it is totally proven that the nazis did kill somewhere around/at least 2 million Jewish people intentionally. I only can find fault with anyone who thinks numbers of "people" killed is the 6 million long publicized, and thinking that revising that inaccurate figure, is somehow morally worse than even one person being killed , given reasons behind all parties involved.

Yep,
Chris

[Safety First]

[Moved from http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p1804110]

Yeah, if you subtract 6 million murdered, thousands of camp survivors, and thousands forced into hiding under dire circumstances, your "a quite of lot of cases of exceptions" dwindles into insignificance.

If you believe that it was 6 million then you are more gullible than ever, are you aware this figure was out in 1919 by a non-Jewish person Martin H. Glynn who made the article The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop! and cited 6 million as the number... check the picture.

Safety First, what are you really trying to say?

Penn44

.

That not all Jews were persecuted under Nazi laws. You ask a daft question, you get a daft answer...

If you want to discuss numbers you have been given the other thread link and we can discuss it on there.

My personal opinion - it was not 6 million Jews.

You should also be aware that Hitler did not give an order for the Holocaust.

All the best

William

[Terry Duncan]

If you believe that it was 6 million then you are more gullible than ever, are you aware this figure was out in 1919 by a non-Jewish person Martin H. Glynn who made the article The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop! and cited 6 million as the number... check the picture.

The article cites persecution and not extermination though, as it is not as though there had not been a history of persecuting the Jews in eastern Europe prior to WWI or even during it in some areas.

That not all Jews were persecuted under Nazi laws.

The existence of the Race Laws shows they were.

You should also be aware that Hitler did not give an order for the Holocaust.

There is no written order in existence that I am aware of, but that does not mean he did not give a verbal order and such things are hardly uncommon in political circles.

My personal opinion - it was not 6 million Jews.

I would tend to agree, though I doubt we will ever be certain about how many were killed. My reasoning would be similar to that expressed by ChristopherPerrien;

Initially, the whole original "holocaust" was based on 4 million Jews being exterminated at Auschwitz. That has now been reduced "factually" to having been between 800,000 and 1.2 million. No honest researcher of Auschwitz (be they Jewish or Neo-Nazi) judges the deaths as past 1.2 million nowadays. Even "Auschwitz" has long brought down the old signage they had about how many Jews were killed there, simply because the claims of 3-4 million being killed there were wrong.

The Auschwitz figures have been reduced since I was at school, but the numbers executed by the Einsatzgruppen have risen. I would guess the figures as between 5 and 5.5 million overall. However I do think it is wrong to focus purely on the Jewish victims as there were others persecuted at the same time even if not in the same numbers, and not to forget the appalling treatment of Soviet POW's that saw the vast majority die. These people should also be remembered as victims of the Nazi racial policies.

I would also ask clarification of the following point raised by Christopher;

Since I now thread on dangerous ground , I do not deny holocaust :roll: , as it is totally proven that the nazis did kill somewhere around/at least 2 million Jewish people intentionally. I only can find fault with anyone who thinks numbers of "people" killed is the 6 million long publicized, and thinking that revising that inaccurate figure, is somehow morally worse than even one person being killed , given reasons behind all parties involved.

I have always believed that there was no problem with examining or even questioning the overall figures as such, but that it was the denial of a deliberate systematic extermination of the Jews and claiming that the figures were possibly even lower than 1 million Jews or that the idea the entire genocidal episode was a hoax. As far as I was aware legitimate historical study is not considered to be questionable whereas the ideologically driven pseudo-'studies' with no real desire to be honest about events are where problems arise. To be honest it is a matter of common sense to most people who can see what happened, but clarification on this might be helpful for readers and members?

[David Thompson]

Terry -- You asked:

I would also ask clarification of the following point raised by Christopher;

Since I now thread on dangerous ground , I do not deny holocaust :roll: , as it is totally proven that the nazis did kill somewhere around/at least 2 million Jewish people intentionally. I only can find fault with anyone who thinks numbers of "people" killed is the 6 million long publicized, and thinking that revising that inaccurate figure, is somehow morally worse than even one person being killed , given reasons behind all parties involved.

I have always believed that there was no problem with examining or even questioning the overall figures as such, but that it was the denial of a deliberate systematic extermination of the Jews and claiming that the figures were possibly even lower than 1 million Jews or that the idea the entire genocidal episode was a hoax. As far as I was aware legitimate historical study is not considered to be questionable whereas the ideologically driven pseudo-'studies' with no real desire to be honest about events are where problems arise. To be honest it is a matter of common sense to most people who can see what happened, but clarification on this might be helpful for readers and members?

That's pretty much the point of view we have here. These are the forum and section rules:

B. Holocaust Denial

Holocaust denial is not permitted by the second rule of this forum. The policy, and the reasons for it, may be seen at:
A note on denial
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10881

The essential aspects of the holocaust are well-known. They have been established through more than fifty years of court proceedings in a large number of countries. The evidence consists of eyewitness testimony from victims and bystanders, the confessions and admissions of perpetrators, photographs, an abundance of documents, physical evidence, forensic studies and judicial findings.

Legitimate questions may be raised about the veracity of individual witnesses or their motives, or isolated items of evidence, or matters of interpretation of policy, etc. These questions do not affect the fact that millions of persons were deliberately murdered, nor does it alter the cumulative and overwhelming evidence of who committed the murders.

The rules of this forum regarding holocaust denial also apply, for example, to the mass murders of Armenians during WWI, and the interwar famine in the Ukraine. It is permissible to question whether these and similar events were the result of a deliberate government policy, and legitimate questions may be raised about the veracity of individual witnesses or their motives, individual items of evidence, or matters of interpretation of policy, but it is not permissible to deny that the events occurred.

Nonconforming posts are subject to deletion without warning. Serious breaches of these rules are punishable by banning the poster.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 96#p484996

As for the figure of six million Jews killed in the holocaust, we have had a large number of threads on the subject. For a discussion of some modern scholarly estimates, see the discussion beginning at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 87#p843887 on the "How [many] Jews were killed for real?" thread.

Reitlinger = 4.57 million
Hilberg = 5.1 million
Guttman and Rozett = 5.85 million
Benz = 6.26 million

See also the "Number of Victims of the Holocaust" reference thread at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=101471

[David Thompson]

Safety First -- You wrote: (1)

If you believe that it was 6 million then you are more gullible than ever, are you aware this figure was out in 1919 by a non-Jewish person Martin H. Glynn who made the article The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop! and cited 6 million as the number... check the picture.

(a) Please avoid making personal comments about other posters. Our rules forbid it. The rules are posted for all to see at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 96#p484996. Please read them and compose your future posts accordingly.

(b) The illustration you provided does not make the claim that six million were killed, but only that they were at risk. The statistical figure, which you can find repeated in many early 20th century writings, refers to the approximate number of Jews living in east-central Europe at that time.

(c) So what?

(2) You also wrote:

My personal opinion - it was not 6 million Jews.

You should also be aware that Hitler did not give an order for the Holocaust.

(a) Our readers come here to get verifiable information on historical topics. No one here cares about the opinions of one or another anonymous poster. Opinion posts, without supporting facts and sources, are deleted after a warning. Consider this your warning.

(b) The thread topic is "The most reliable holocaust statistics on the web." It isn't about you, your notions, or a Hitler order. Please keep that in mind when composing your posts. If you want to discuss the existence of a Hitler order, please review the threads at:

Primary evidence about Hitler
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=627237
Nazi leaders and holocaust denial
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33295

and post your sourced remarks there.

[bluespaceoddity]

I though at first that "ChristopherPerrien" was attempting a revival of an argument previously addressed here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 56&start=0

About the argument our esteemed moderator wrote: "The argument is basically like an embarrassingly bad card trick -- it's poorly thought out, clumsily executed, and leaves the impression that the would-be trickster is even more stupid than you originally thought." - so ChristopherPerrien couldn't possibly have meant "that" argument, could he?