Zyklon B....Smells Like Almonds?

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Robert Barrett
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#16

Post by Robert Barrett » 08 Nov 2002, 23:00

"Rob,

can you quote from these surviver testimonies or do you remember their names? "



No Hans. I can't quote any sources or names. I just remember reading it several times in the past. I will post sources if I run accross it again.


Thanks everyone for your replies.


Rob

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#17

Post by Dan » 09 Nov 2002, 16:10

And Robert, don't forget that the vast majority of Zyklon produced had a "odorent", a warning agent added. There was evidently one batch that didn't have it.

Have you ever sprayed for flies in your house? The smell isn't part of the product, just an additive to warn you poison is in use. Off the top of my head, I can't remember what the odorant for Zyklon was, though.


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Roberto
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#18

Post by Roberto » 09 Nov 2002, 16:45

Dan wrote:And Robert, don't forget that the vast majority of Zyklon produced had a "odorent", a warning agent added. There was evidently one batch that didn't have it.
Such batches existed indeed. Under this link you may find a facsimile of a document referring to one of them:

http://www.h-ref.de/dk/vern/zyklon/warn.shtml

The document is an invoice by the manufacturer Degesch carrying the following remark:
Die Etiketten tragen den Vermerk:
* Vorsicht, ohne Warnstoff ! *
My translation:
The labels carry the remark:
* Caution, no warning substance added ! *
Dan wrote:Have you ever sprayed for flies in your house?
Believe it or not, I never do that. :D
Dan wrote:The smell isn't part of the product, just an additive to warn you poison is in use. Off the top of my head, I can't remember what the odorant for Zyklon was, though.
Neither do I know. It seems to have been an irritant substance, though.
The translation of the Directives of the Health Institution of the Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia in Prague (Nuremberg Document NO. NI-9912) that I found on Carlos Porter's website included the following passages:
[...]I. Properties of prussic acid (hydrocyanic acid)
Prussic acid is a gas which is generated by evaporation
Boiling point: 25 degree centigrade [correct transcription of German original accordingly]
Freezing point: - 15 degrees centigrade
Specific gravity: 0.69 [correct transcription of German original accordingly]
Steam density: 0.97 (Air = 1.0)
The liquid evaporates easily.
Liquid: transparent, colourless.
Smell: Peculiar, repulsively sweet
Toxic effects on warm-blooded animals
Since prussic acid has practically no indicative irritant effect, it is highly toxic and very dangerous. Prussic acid is one of the most powerful poisons. 1 mg per kg of body weight is sufficient to kill a human being. Women and children are generally more susceptible than men. Very small amounts of prussic acid do not harm the human body, even if breathed continuously. Birds and fishes are particularly susceptible to prussic acid.
Toxic effects on insects
The effects of prussic acid on insects do not depend on the temperature to the same extent as that of other gasses, that is, it is also effective in low temperatures (even at 5 degrees Cent.). The eggs of many insects, such as bugs and lice, are more susceptible than the full-grown insects.
Toxic effects on plants
The degree of toxicity depends on the type of vegetation on the plants. Plants with thick larvae are less susceptible than those with thin ones. Mildew and dry-rot are not killed by prussic acid. Prussic acid does not destroy bacteria.
II. Method of using prussic acid
ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mess (Digresses - Die gravel) or small brown cubes (Erco) are used as carriers.
Apart from serving its purpose as indicator, this irritant also has the advantage of stimulating the respiration of insects. Prussic acid and the irritant are generated through simple evaporation. Zyklon will keep for 3 months. Use damaged cans first. The contents of a can must be used up at once. Liquid prussic acid damages polish, laquor, paint etc. Gaseous prussic acid is harmless. The toxicity of the prussic acid remains unchanged by the addition of the irritant; the danger connected with it is however considerably decreased.[...]

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#19

Post by Dan » 09 Nov 2002, 17:26

I just checked, and as I suspected, the warning agent was chloripicrin. Until about 10 years ago, this was the prefered warning agent for large agricultural fumigation in the US. I have personal experience, some of it not pleasant, of it's use, and I will describe it here.

In small concentrations, typically around 1 percent (it varies tremendously depending on the targeted pest) it causes tears and a constriction of the lungs and throat. It's smell is very difficult to describe. Very unpleasant, but I can't think of any analogy.

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#20

Post by Dan » 09 Nov 2002, 17:35

http://infoventures.com/e-hlth/pestcide/chlorpcn.html

It seems I am not alone in having difficulty describing chloropicrin. This link will give you information on what people around Zyklon smelled. There was no excuse to take 19 posts to answer your question, and I apologize on behave of everyone.

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Bitter Almond Smell...

#21

Post by Scott Smith » 10 Nov 2002, 09:42

Here's a snippet from pulp dectective fiction located at random:
H.E. Lear wrote:Bitter almond is the hundred dollar phrase hanging in the air tonight and the word bitter cost ninety-nine of those hundred bucks. That’s what I first noticed about the smell. Bitter almonds.

Like I said, it grabbed your nose right off the bat. You could taste it in the air and I can assure you that Grandma was not out here baking cookies at midnight next to an overturned fruit orchard truck, apricot pits scattered all over the road, piled on top of a dead body lying face down on the wet asphalt. That was the smell. Bitter almonds. It smelled like cyanide. [Emphasis Added.]
Here's some more information:
NOHSC wrote:Cyanide solutions are corrosive to skin and eyes and may also cause dermatitis if allowed to remain in contact with the skin. Cyanide can be absorbed through the skin. A hazard can result if the pH of cyanide plating baths falls below approximately pH10. At lower pH the air above cyanide solutions can contain high levels of hydrogen cyanide. A considerable hazard from the evolution of hydrogen cyanide gas results if cyanide solutions are allowed to come into contact with acid. The evolved hydrogen cyanide has the smell of bitter almonds. Proper control of effluent assists in minimising exposure. For information on cyanide poisoning, refer to the Appendix.

Hydrogen cyanide gas and its simple salts are among the most rapidly acting of all known poisons. Even small concentrations are extremely hazardous. Not all people are able to recognise the bitter almond smell of hydrogen cyanide. Therefore smell should not be relied upon as a warning signal. [Emphasis Added.]

SOURCE: NOHSC
Cyanides:

The most important ones are: hydrogen cyanide, cyanogenic chloride that is dispersed in gas form. They have a bitter almond smell. An overdose of cyanide can kill in 6-8 minutes. [Emphasis Added.]
If I run across any Survivor accounts where the exact phrase "bitter almond smell" is used I'll post it.

Here is an interesting experiment on live subjects with Cyanosil, a supposed modern equivalent of Zyklon-B. I am not making any claims to the scientific objectivity of this test or any implications thereof. This video clip is 8.47MB.

CLICK! Image

Best Regards,
Scott

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Hans
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Re: Bitter Almond Smell...

#22

Post by Hans » 10 Nov 2002, 11:11

Scott Smith wrote: Here is an interesting experiment on live subjects with Cyanosil, a supposed modern equivalent of Zyklon-B. I am not making any claims to the scientific objectivity of this test or any implications thereof. This video clip is 8.47MB.
I'm astonished that you sell this obvious hoax with zero scientific value here as "an interesting experiment on live subjects". No, actually I'm not.
:mrgreen:

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Re: Bitter Almond Smell...

#23

Post by Scott Smith » 10 Nov 2002, 11:14

Hans wrote:
Scott Smith wrote: Here is an interesting experiment on live subjects with Cyanosil, a supposed modern equivalent of Zyklon-B. I am not making any claims to the scientific objectivity of this test or any implications thereof. This video clip is 8.47MB.
I'm astonished that you sell this obvious hoax with zero scientific value here as "an interesting experiment on live subjects". No, actually I'm not.
:mrgreen:
I never said it had any scientific value. I just said it was interesting. However, if it is a hoax, that claim carries no evidence to support it either.
:wink:

It would be interesting to perform this experiment in the USA, where obviously nobody's name would have to be kept confidential, since such experiments would not be Thoughtcrime.
:)

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Re: Bitter Almond Smell...

#24

Post by Hans » 10 Nov 2002, 11:40

Scott Smith wrote:
It would be interesting to perform this experiment in the USA,
Great that you are volunteering as test person, Scott!

Maybe Berg, who has according to him already done suicide attempts with Diesel in his garage, joins you?
where obviously nobody's name would have to be kept confidential, since such experiments would not be Thoughtcrime.
Is suicide allowed in the US?

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Re: Bitter Almond Smell...

#25

Post by Scott Smith » 10 Nov 2002, 13:26

Hans wrote:
Scott Smith wrote:
It would be interesting to perform this experiment in the USA,
Great that you are volunteering as test person, Scott!

Maybe Berg, who has according to him already done suicide attempts with Diesel in his garage, joins you?
where obviously nobody's name would have to be kept confidential, since such experiments would not be Thoughtcrime.
Is suicide allowed in the US?
I'd be willing to do the diesel experiment if the price were right because it would not be a pleasant experience. Of course, I would test it on animals first to replicate the Pattle & Stretch experiments.

As far as the Zyklon-B test, I'm not an expert there so I can't say whether it would be safe, but under the same cool temperature conditions for the time shown, I don't see why not. Of course, I would test it with animals first. And I wouldn't need to hide my name since I don't plan on visiting the Bundestablishment in the near-future.
:mrgreen:

Yes, suicide is illegal in the U.S. But that wouldn't quite be the case, would it? One can get permits for many more-outrageous things like bungee jumping off of bridges. I'm sure that all would be needed would be a consent-waiver. It would be harder to get permission for the preliminary animal experimentation.
Maybe Berg, who has according to him already done suicide attempts with Diesel in his garage...
That's news to me.
:)

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Re: Bitter Almond Smell...

#26

Post by Hans » 10 Nov 2002, 14:18

Scott Smith wrote:but under the same cool temperature conditions for the time shown
I doubt that people crushed into pre-heated gas-chambers (say 10 people per square meter) lead to a cool temperature in these chambers.

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Re: Bitter Almond Smell...

#27

Post by Scott Smith » 10 Nov 2002, 21:17

Hans wrote:
Scott Smith wrote:but under the same cool temperature conditions for the time shown
I doubt that people crushed into pre-heated gas-chambers (say 10 people per square meter) lead to a cool temperature in these chambers.
Possibly not. It would be interesting to see some scientific models along those lines, sort of the beginnings of "process engineering." Of course, that would imply a certain amount of skepticism or disbelief to even contemplate, assuming it were legal, wouldn't it?
:idea:

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Re: Bitter Almond Smell...

#28

Post by Hans » 10 Nov 2002, 21:55

Scott Smith wrote:
Hans wrote:
Scott Smith wrote:but under the same cool temperature conditions for the time shown
I doubt that people crushed into pre-heated gas-chambers (say 10 people per square meter) lead to a cool temperature in these chambers.
Possibly not. It would be interesting to see some scientific models along those lines, sort of the beginnings of "process engineering."
Well, I don't see any reasons why to doubt that and some scientific models don't make much sense when the facts are obvious anyway. And even revisionists admit that in a homicidal gas-chamber "the bodies of the victims would heat up the area sufficiently" (Carlo Mattogno, Auschwitz: The End of a Legend, here: online version).

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Robert Barrett
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#29

Post by Robert Barrett » 11 Nov 2002, 00:23

"And Robert, don't forget that the vast majority of Zyklon produced had a "odorent", a warning agent added. There was evidently one batch that didn't have it.

Have you ever sprayed for flies in your house? The smell isn't part of the product, just an additive to warn you poison is in use."


Thanks Dan. I didn't think about that and it makes perfectly good sence.

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Robert Barrett
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#30

Post by Robert Barrett » 11 Nov 2002, 00:35


Scott Smith Wrote:

"I would test it with animals first."



"First"?? I'm curious. What would you test with it "second"? :wink:

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